Chris Benoit dead

[Please shoot me]

Nash is a fucking liar. It's that simple. It's amazing how easily suckered some people are. Also, let's not forget how much we all hated him for his "vanilla midgets" bullshit and then wonder where Benoit got the paranoia about his size from. Fuck Kevin Nash.And Parkamarka, you're right. The wrestlers AREN'T in a position to do anything much. Of course, if they all stood together, things would change overnight, but the difference between an undercard guy's money and a top guy's money is too great to make that a realistic prospect. So the only people who DO have any power are the fans. If everyone stops watching and tells WWE and its sponsors WHY they've stopped watching, EVERYTHING will change. If you're too gutless to turn off your TV for a couple of months and send half a dozen emails to help prevent the deaths of your favourite wrestlers then you're a fucking piece of shit coward and you ARE complicit in any future deaths. It's that simple. If you believe the industry is fucked up and you want it to change, YOU as a consumer have the power to make difference. But as long as you keep watching the TV and buying the PPVs, you're as guilty as Vince.

Thats a bit extreme there mate.At the end of the day, it's not as if these guys don't know what they are doing when they get into the wrestling business.

I don't mean to speak for someone else but thats the point being made. If we carry on watching and having a good time wether or not that these guys are killing themselves, then we are partly reasponsible. I don't like it more than you, infact it makes me sick but it is true.

[Numberoneson]

...someone told me Kevin Sullivan did it.

[RCP]

Nash is a fucking liar. It's that simple. It's amazing how easily suckered some people are. Also, let's not forget how much we all hated him for his "vanilla midgets" bullshit and then wonder where Benoit got the paranoia about his size from. Fuck Kevin Nash.And Parkamarka, you're right. The wrestlers AREN'T in a position to do anything much. Of course, if they all stood together, things would change overnight, but the difference between an undercard guy's money and a top guy's money is too great to make that a realistic prospect. So the only people who DO have any power are the fans. If everyone stops watching and tells WWE and its sponsors WHY they've stopped watching, EVERYTHING will change. If you're too gutless to turn off your TV for a couple of months and send half a dozen emails to help prevent the deaths of your favourite wrestlers then you're a fucking piece of shit coward and you ARE complicit in any future deaths. It's that simple. If you believe the industry is fucked up and you want it to change, YOU as a consumer have the power to make difference. But as long as you keep watching the TV and buying the PPVs, you're as guilty as Vince.

Be quiet you self-righteous twat.

[KrAzY]

Can you imagine if all this was just a work lol

[edgecrusher]

Nash is a fucking liar. It's that simple. It's amazing how easily suckered some people are. Also, let's not forget how much we all hated him for his "vanilla midgets" bullshit and then wonder where Benoit got the paranoia about his size from. Fuck Kevin Nash.And Parkamarka, you're right. The wrestlers AREN'T in a position to do anything much. Of course, if they all stood together, things would change overnight, but the difference between an undercard guy's money and a top guy's money is too great to make that a realistic prospect. So the only people who DO have any power are the fans. If everyone stops watching and tells WWE and its sponsors WHY they've stopped watching, EVERYTHING will change. If you're too gutless to turn off your TV for a couple of months and send half a dozen emails to help prevent the deaths of your favourite wrestlers then you're a fucking piece of shit coward and you ARE complicit in any future deaths. It's that simple. If you believe the industry is fucked up and you want it to change, YOU as a consumer have the power to make difference. But as long as you keep watching the TV and buying the PPVs, you're as guilty as Vince.

Be quiet you self-righteous twat.

I sense we're getting into 'truth hurts' territory here. Again, I wouldn't use such strong language, I think it kind of buries the point, but he's still right. If you're NOT one of the people who thinks the industry's fucked up and needs to change, no problem, but if you are, then you should really try and do something about it. Starting with not supporting Vince's little regime. And self-righteous or no, it's pretty fucking stupid looking at some of the responses on here, from people who utterly condemn Vince for what he's basically forcing his workers to do and yet who have no intention of doing ANYTHING to try and help the situation. They'll just happily watch whatever Vince puts on TV. I don't know, but personally I find that just a little offensive. If you really care about something, aren't you supposed to try and do something about it?Or is that just a wacky, far out idea?

[Loligan]

I guess Vince forced Eddie Guerrero to get back in the ring to wrestle even though he was hooked on pain pills in 2001 ...oh wait no, he released him. Eddie went into rehab and overcame the addiction.Oh small point to note, the addition stemmed from the 1999 car crash Guerrero suffered while he was suicidal under the regime of WCW led by Eric Bischoff ....but yeah it's alllllllll Vince McMahon's fault because he owns the biggest company around (which also makes him the easiest target)

[Finlay]

Nothing major but I see the Title History section of wwe.com has been changed. All Benoit's Title reigns are still listed but all photos and text in relation to them have been removed.

I wouldn't bet against him being retropectively stripped of those titles you know.....................

You know what mate I have to agree. I can the see the same thing happening myself in the course of time.I noticed the following updates on pwinsider.com;WWE champion John Cena has been added to this Monday's Larry King Live on CNN, discussing the Benoit tragedy. Bret Hart, Chris Jericho, Marc Mero and Ted DiBiase had been previously scheduled for the show, but CNN is now listing Hart, Cena and Jericho as guests. Cena's addition would explain the change in the Raw main event that Dave Scherer mentioned earlier today.The family of the late Nancy Benoit announced that they have formed a foundation in memory of Nancy and Daniel Benoit. The family is asking that in lieu of gifts or condolences, donations be made to the foundation. Donations can be sent to:The Nancy and Daniel Benoit Foundation for Battered Women and Abused Childrenc/o Decker, Hallman, Barber and Briggs260 Peachtree St. Suite 1700Atlanta, GA 30303Cena on Larry King? On a MONDAY NIGHT? Sounds like the WWE Champion is being pulled off of RAW to do this interview. The name of the foundation really brings it home doesn't it?

[Happ Hazzard]

It just seems to be that the legacy of ECW is coming home to roost. 1) Wrestlers lauded for working hurt, so not to let down the fans.2) Wrestlers use of drugs not only tolerated but applauded by the fans3) Unprotected chairshots to the head being cheered (and safer chairshots being booed)4) Wrestlers that treat the wrestling business as a business are castigated. Wrestlers that give their life (literally in some cases) to the business are held up as something to be proud of. 5) The promotion becoming a bigger star than any of the wrestlers.

[Mr. Baxter]

It just seems to be that the legacy of ECW is coming home to roost. 1) Wrestlers lauded for working hurt, so not to let down the fans.2) Wrestlers use of drugs not only tolerated but applauded by the fans3) Unprotected chairshots to the head being cheered (and safer chairshots being booed)4) Wrestlers that treat the wrestling business as a business are castigated. Wrestlers that give their life (literally in some cases) to the business are held up as something to be proud of. 5) The promotion becoming a bigger star than any of the wrestlers.

Yes, because no wrestlers died before ECW formed.

[Kenny McBride]

Firstly, that article doesn't specifically say anything about roid rage being to blame for the Benoit deaths. It says that "it is feared" that that Benoit was under the influence of steroids when he killed his family. That much is true. The rest of the article is about the legitimate problems that steroids are linked to, and merely uses the Benoit issue to bring things into sharper focus. Really, as long as Vince can defend himself against blame for so many wrestlers' deaths by saying "hardly any of them were working for me at the time," and yet ignore the fact that the likes of Crash Holly and Mike Awesome had only been out of the company a very short time, or that 90% of Davey Boy Smith's non-British career was with the WWF, it's going to be a real struggle to change anything at all.S for all the people ragging on me, I'll just point out that I said people who moaned about the number of deaths but did nothing were "as guilty" as Vince. That's doesn't mean I think Vince is 100% to blame. But he has the opportunity to change everything if he really wants to. So do we. That's where the equality of guilt goes. No, we can't be blamed for the last death, or maybe any of the deaths that have gone before. But we can prevent the pattern from continuing forever, just as Vince could. Of course, Vince has too much money riding on his current policy of changing as little as possible, so maybe we're even more responsible. The only people who can persuade Vince to change his policies are his customers. You know that thing about "we listen to the fans and give them what they want"? Well maybe it's time we forced WWE to actually follow through on that. The alternative is for everyone to accept that they're not willing to watch wrestling unless there are grotesquely over-developed bodies, guys working hurt, guys taking unprotected chairshots and other unnecessarily dangerous bumps. guys working a schedule that, even though it's easier than it was, is still harder than normal people should ever have to deal with.So hands up - who believes deaths are the price that MUST be paid for the wrestling they want to watch?

Edited July 8, 2007 by Kenny McBride

[RCP]

It just seems to be that the legacy of ECW is coming home to roost. 1) Wrestlers lauded for working hurt, so not to let down the fans.2) Wrestlers use of drugs not only tolerated but applauded by the fans3) Unprotected chairshots to the head being cheered (and safer chairshots being booed)4) Wrestlers that treat the wrestling business as a business are castigated. Wrestlers that give their life (literally in some cases) to the business are held up as something to be proud of. 5) The promotion becoming a bigger star than any of the wrestlers.

But god forbid anyone say anything negative about ECW eh?

[Dirty Eddie]

It just seems to be that the legacy of ECW is coming home to roost. 1) Wrestlers lauded for working hurt, so not to let down the fans.2) Wrestlers use of drugs not only tolerated but applauded by the fans3) Unprotected chairshots to the head being cheered (and safer chairshots being booed)4) Wrestlers that treat the wrestling business as a business are castigated. Wrestlers that give their life (literally in some cases) to the business are held up as something to be proud of. 5) The promotion becoming a bigger star than any of the wrestlers.

Most of those points are valid, but there is a lot more to consider. ECW worked a schedule that was much, much lighter than WWE's, so they guys had much more rest between shows. They only promoted shows in a few areas - all based around Philly, with the odd trip to Florida and Texas later on., so the stress of constant travel day after day was not there. They did not push muscled up roiders. There was zero incentive for hitting the roids and pushing your body far past it's natural weight because Heyman did not push people based on their size.And most importantly (as far as I am concerned) ECW was not in a position financially to better the industry by actively improving conditions for it's workers. WWE makes massive profits every year, some of which could easily be used to set up retirement/pension plans for their roster. They also have the money and the roster size to cut the amount of shows the guys work, but they don't.

[John.]

A article from todays Guardian online

 

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2007/07/...real_showb.html

[Happ Hazzard]

They did not push muscled up roiders. There was zero incentive for hitting the roids and pushing your body far past it's natural weight because Heyman did not push people based on their size.

All the large wrestlers were making big money in WCW or the WWF. Heyman pushed Sid when he briefly came in, Mike Awesome became World Champion, Benoit & Guerrero were given pushes, as were the Pitbulls. Raven & Sandman admitted to being steroid users. I would imagine that as many of the ECW roster were on steroids as in any other promotion.

[Dirty Eddie]

They did not push muscled up roiders. There was zero incentive for hitting the roids and pushing your body far past it's natural weight because Heyman did not push people based on their size.

All the large wrestlers were making big money in WCW or the WWF. Heyman pushed Sid when he briefly came in, Mike Awesome became World Champion, Benoit & Guerrero were given pushes, as were the Pitbulls. Raven & Sandman admitted to being steroid users. I would imagine that as many of the ECW roster were on steroids as in any other promotion.

There's a big difference though. Sandman and Raven were not pushed because they used steroids and got huge. If they chose to do them, that's their call really, but they were not rewarded for doing them and they were not pressured into doing them to secure their' spots. Heyman got Raven and Sandman over by allowing them to use gimmicks that connected with the audience, and by hiding their weaknesses. While also giving them great storylines and angles. Sandman was a fat fuck most of the time, but it really didn't matter! Compare that to WWE where guys like Lashley, Masters, Snitsky etc.. have nothing to offer if you take away their size, and are only pushed because of their shape. Guys like Rey and Eddie would never have been given a chance at main event status without bulking up to "fit in" with what Vince expects of main eventers.