Terje Rindal

6. Shinya Hashimoto beat Vader (??:??) by countout.7. Mil Mascaras, Dos Caras & Sicodelico Jr. beat Tom Howard, Steve Corino & Dusty Rhodes (??:??) when Mascaras pinned Corino.Hashimoto-Vader was fairly short I heared. Should be interesting though. Bet Corino is happy doing the job here

14. Masahiro Chono Return Match: Keiji Muto & Bob Sapp beat Masahiro Chono & Hiroyoshi Tenzan (21:00) when Sapp used a powerbomb on Tenzan.Poor Tenzan. If he wasn't such good friends with the bookerman, he'd be outta there by now.

13. Yuji Nagata beat Kensuke Sasaki (12:10) by referee stop. Fucking sweet~~

5. Handicap Match: Giant Silva beat Kohei Sato & Katsuhisa Fujii (??:??) with a one foot pinfall on Sato.

I got Sasaki, Mutoh/Sapp and can't decide the final one. But I'll go Nakamura.What's your predications Terje?

12. Manabu Nakanishi beat Genichiro Tenryu (10:20) with a Fisherman suplex hold.Meh. Nagata is next~4. The Predator & Kevin Randleman beat Shinjiro Otani & Masato Tanaka (??:??) when Predator pinned Tanaka.5. Handicap Match: Giant Silva vs. Kohei Sato & Katsuhisa FujiiSo Otani & Tanaka loses, and X turned out to be two guys. Nice one

11. Osamu Nishimura beat Minoru Suzuki (9:39) with a backslide.A bit too short for a Nishimura match, but I'm looking forward to this.1. Four Way Dance: Low Ki beat MIKAMI , Jun Kasai & King Adamo (7:03) with the Ki Crusher on Kasai.2. Zebra Man beat Ikuto Hidaka (??:??) with the Z bomb.3. Satoshi Kojima & Kaz Hayashi beat El Solar & Dos Caras Jr. (??:??) when Kojima used a lariat on Solar.

From SSS, obviously:NJPW "WRESTLING WORLD 2004", 1/4/04 (WPW/NJ+IWTV Internet)Tokyo Dome1. Hirooki Goto beat Naofumi Yamamoto (6:21) with a crab hold.2. Katsushi Takemura beat El Samurai (6:53) with a moonsault press.3. Makai #1, Mitsuya Nagai, Ryushi Yanagisawa & Ryota Chikuzen beat Enson Inoue, Hiro Saito, Tatsutoshi Goto & Michiyoshi Ohara (11:55) when Nagai used the Hyper Knee Tiger on Goto.4. Shinya Makabe & Toru Yano beat Blue Wolf & Wataru Inoue (10:18) when Makabe used a German suplex hold on Inoue.5. Masayuki Naruse beat Tadao Yasuda (2:09) by DQ.5a. Masayuki Naruse beat Tadao Yasuda (0:30) by referee stop.6. Ryusuke Taguchi beat Akiya Anzawa (4:53) with a dropkick.7. IWGP Jr. Heavyweight Tag Team Title: Jado & Gedo © beat Heat & Tiger Mask (17:15) when Gedo used a Superfly splash on Heat (1st defense).8. GHC Jr. Heavyweight Title: Jushin Thunder Liger beat Takashi Sugiura © (17:52) with an avalanche-style brainbuster to become the 8th champion.9. U-30 Openweight Title: Hiroshi Tanahashi © beat Yutaka Yoshie (17:06) with a Dragon suplex hold (6th defense).10. Josh Barnett & Takashi Iizuka beat Kazunari Murakami & Katsuyori Shibata (16:04) when Barnett used a Captured buster on Murakami.Never looked like that great a card on paper, but Liger winning the GHC belt is awesome stuff. Junior matches at the Dome tends to be way below par, but it's definitely a must-see match. Gedo & Jado retaining has to be considered somewhat of a surprise as well. Never a fan of Yoshie or Tanahashi, but Yoshie looked tremendous in his G1 matches with Nagata and Takayama, and Tanahashi had his best match yet with Akiyama, so I kinda want to see t his one as well.Remaining matches:11. Osamu Nishimura vs. Minoru Suzuki 12. Manabu Nakanishi vs. Genichiro Tenryu13. Yuji Nagata vs. Kensuke Sasaki14. Masahiro Chono Return Match: Masahiro Chono & Hiroyoshi Tenzan vs. Keiji Muto & Bob Sapp 15. Unification Match - IWGP Heavyweight Title & NWF Heavyweight Title: Shinsuke Nakamura © vs. Yoshihiro Takayama ©Matches 11, 13 & 15 should be very good. The Tenryu & Muto matches will probably be very heated, but I don't think they'll be any good wrestling wise. Tenryu-Nakanishi might surprise though. No results from Hustle-1 yet, but here's the card:DSE/ZERO-ONE "HUSTLE-1", 1/4/04Saitama Super Arena1. Four Way Dance: Low Ki beat MIKAMI , Jun Kasai & King Adamo2. Zebra Man vs. Ikuto Hidaka3. Satoshi Kojima & Kaz Hayashi vs. El Solar & Dos Caras Jr.4. Shinjiro Otani & Masato Tanaka vs. The Predator & Kevin Randleman5. Giant Silva vs. X6. Shinya Hashimoto vs. Vader7. Mil Mascaras, Dos Caras & Sicodelico Jr. vs. Tom Howard, Steve Corino & Dusty Rhodes8. Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mark Coleman9. Naoya Ogawa vs. Bill Goldberg

Osaka Hurricane

Liger & Murahama

Takehiro Murahama

Jushin Liger & Takehiro Murahama vs Black Buffalo & Tsubasa -- Osaka Pro, 2.1.2003

Things you have to consider though is, a lot of you are just going to people like AJ styles, Jody Fleisch, Jonny Storm, etc etc. But to be honest all they would probably do is go for the high impact sex straight away, there would be no meaning or reasoning behind it. I can imagine AJ styles just going straight in with blow job, hand job, anal sex, blow job etc, and although it would be good there would be no emotional involvement and lasting effect.Some one like Ric Flair, Arn Anderson, Tully Blanchard would be passionate, kiss you and whisper into your ear, building up to the eventual climax. Or Shawn Micheals would mix the old school build up with a kick arse deep throat.Think about it.

Speaking of HHH, we had a thread a year or so back on how Steph probably fucks his ass with a strap-on. And they say wrestling fans are no-lifers

What about Rey Rey, if you were into kinky sex, he'd probably keep his mask on for you

Can we not talk about sex with masked wrestlers, the the last thing i need to think of is a Fuji/Mo/Ultimo sandwich

KENTA's the popular choice at RIM, well bobbins likes him

Yeah, but look at Ricky Steamboat in the WWF - not a good interview, his wrestling skill was what kept him at the level he was at (near-ish the main event) for his spell in the WWF.

The charisma thing, I'd disagree with. Hogan, admittedly was stupidly charismatic, but Savage was much closer than you make out to Hogan.

And there was a Takada vs. Tenryu headlined show at the Jingu baseball stadium that drew over 40,000 for the UWF-I in the summer of 1996, plus you also have Takada

I'll have to disagree with this, and say that, had Hogan not gone back to the WWF in 84, Randy Savage would be the person we're talking about. The marketing thing wouldn't have been Savage-a-mania, but we'd have had the same kind of interviews, just more of a growling thing. Plus, Savage had Liz, which gave a foil for the heel characters to play off during matches. He was ten times the worker Hogan was around that time, so that'd have been even better for us. Sure, you couldn't do the stupid fitness segments with Okerlund on TNT, but you could have Okerlund being shown some of the 'Macho Man's Moves' (

the matches I saw with Mitsuhara Misawa didn't quite grip me in the same way some of the Kobashi ones have and do.

Wrestling up until the 80s, exceptionally dull by today's standards. All punch/kick/amatuer grapple etc. If you were to put a wrestler like Brock Lesnar into the 1950s with his moveset and with a manager who could do the talking, you'd be looking at these old timers saying he was the greatest wrestler of all time.

 

The quality of wrestling in these days is completly different to what it was back then. We're unquestionably spoilt and over-satiated with what we see these days. In their respective eras, guys like Billy Graham, Andre the Giant, Gorgeous George and Rikidozan were considered great because they were so different. But if you were to replace these guys with modern day counterparts, they'd look totally inferior.

 

It's all because we've come to expect a certain level of performance, that it becomes stale, and we look back fondly at the trend setters of the past as something special and better.

 

I'll probably get slaughtered for this but if you were to take a guy like A-Train or the Big Show and exchange them for Andre the Giant in history, then you'd have one of the first two branded "the benchmark for big man wrestlers". Whereas if you were to put an in-his-prime Andre into todays WWF, you'd think he was an uncharismatic stiff who was only capable of some of the basic moves. It's the same for if you were to replace Billy Graham with Scott Steiner or Triple H, or if you were to swap Rico and Gorgeous George.

 

Also, take the example of George Hackenschmidt or Ed Lewis. Sure, these guys were hard bastards, but if you were to put on a match of theres these days, it'd be boring crap, and they'd be criticised for being terrible.

 

At the end of the day, wrestlers today are superior to their counterparts of the past, but it's because there's a continuing improvement and expectance of performance, alot of wrestlers seem to be poorer. Also, to remain fresh, wrestlers have to strive to be constantly different. We don't tune in to the TV and go "ooh, that guy has entrance music. He will forever be established as a legend". But thats really what happened with Gorgeous George. I think we should be greatful for the wrestling we see on our TVs.

I see what you're saying here, but I don't think that's a very fair way to look at things at all. You can only judge wrestlers (as everything else in life) up against their own time and era. For example, even the worst airplanes today smokes the Wright brothers plane, but you can't hardly call their plane crap, can you ?

Everything in the world evolves, including wrestling. On that note, I think this is as fair a list as you'll likely to get.

I personally don't think Backlund is debatable - he was a flop in comparison to the champions that preceeded and followed him. Perhaps it's the fact that he didn't sell anything of Flair's in the '93 Rumble that makes me hate him' date=' but I never liked him, and never got the impression that he was a success. I'd put him in the same league as Morales - failed experiment.[/quote']

 

I don't think the phrase 'failed experiment' fits Backlund very well. Sure, he wasn't as big a draw as Bruno or Hogan, but he did contstantly very good business for the most part of his title reign.

 

HHH has charisma and had/has drawing power' date=' but recently hasn't had the wrestling skills to back it up. Same can be said for Austin when his body broke down, etc. [/quote']

 

Austin may have lost his bumping, but he did manage to change his style after his body gave up on him. While he was a very different worker than before, I'd say he was easily as good, if not much better.

 

Hogan: Hogan' date=' I think got lucky...kinda. While I won't disagree that Vince Jr. seemed to have planned Hulkamania for a while before it arrived, I think he was just in the right place at the right time. We could've had another charismatic, bulging wrestler in his place if the AWA thing hadn't fallen through when it did.[/quote']

 

Nah.

 

Hogan was already a huge star, way before "Hulkamania was born, in January 1984". Sure, he wouldn't have been the global celebrity that he became, but he would have been one of the top (if not THE top) stars in both the US and Japan, with or without McMahon.

 

I also don't think saying they 'could have just gotten another roided charismatic wrestler instead of Hogan' is accurate, as Hogan was way above that, especially in the charisma department. Not to mention having a cool name, that was easy for kids to get into.

 

Austin: While Austin's attitude was what made him what he is nowadays' date=' I think he was lucky. McMahon wanted to push the envelope, Austin was just the person to do it. They could've possibly chosen someone else, so again, I'm 50/50 on reflection.[/quote']

 

Sure, Austin was in the right place at the right time, but his work, psychology, charisma and promos put him in a league no one else would be able to reach.

 

How's it fair to compare Toyota and Kobashi to Piper on promos' date=' considering that a) they speak another language (sorry if you speak Japanese, I didn't know) and b) they both worked in companies whose promo style differs massively from WWF/E? As far as you know they could be brilliant with the stick.[/quote']

 

Well, I wasn't really comparing them when it came to promos, for the obvious reasons you mentioned (but I do speak Japanese by the way ).

 

The reason I brought up promos is that this is one of the things that Piper really shines at. After all, he's widely known as one of the premier promo men of all time, in the league of Lawler, Cornette and Flair from his era.

 

I'm sorry' date=' you must back up that charisma statement. Both Kobashi and Toyota have shedloads of charisma. I'll agree that Aja Kong is a bigger star than Toyota, so I'll switch gears and include her in this. How does Piper compare to Kong/Kobashi in charisma? In my opinion, he certainly isn't higher.[/quote']

 

I've never thought of Toyota (or even Aja) as very charismatic actually. And I'm a big fan. Kobashi, certainly, but I think Piper is way above. After all, Kobashi, Toyota and Aja were much better in-ring workers than Piper was, so for him to be as big a draw as he was, he had to be very charismatic indeed.

 

Drawing ability' date=' I sincerely doubt you're right. Yes, Piper may have drawn plenty of money, but Kong and Kobashi were both stars that helped their respective promotions reach the heights that it did. Kobashi is one of the icons from the 'golden age' of Puro, and Kong is one of the most famous female wrestlers of all time. Maybe only in Japan, but that's hardly her fault, because there's hardly any market for female wrestling in the states. Both must have drawn BUCKETLOADS when AJPW and AJW were at their heights. Both have since gone on to be massive stars in whatever promotions they touched, too.[/quote']

 

I don't think Kobashi can even touch Piper in the drawing departement. When AJPW was at it's peak in the mid-90's [before the product became stale and business declined], Kobashi was just a piece of the complete package. Misawa was obviously a bigger draw, as was Hansen. Jumbo as well, and I'd think Kawada was too, and maybe even Williams. Baba was still a HUGE draw too at this time, particularly outside of Tokyo.

 

I can't really speak for Aja or Toyota; PUNQ can probably shed some light on this.

 

Historical importance I can't really compare on. I'm not as knowledgeable as I should be for a self-proclaimed smark. But surely Kong/Kobashi deserve some historical credit for aiding their promotions so much? Piper was only a gear in WWF' date=' not the machine. Those two superstars were as close to being the machine as you could get (though obviously Misawa was higher than Kobashi). Anyway, please educate if I'm wrong[/quote']

 

I'd say Piper was more than a gear in the WWF, as he was Hogan's top drawing opponent of the era (with the exeption of Andre), and a huge part of the Rock N Wrestling angle.

 

Obviously Kobashi deserves credit for his work in AJPW, but historically I don't think he's THAT important. For the history of AJPW, he's probably not even top 10. Piper may not be in WWF either, but he worked many more places.

 

I think the fact that Toyota' date=' Kong and Kobashi still ARE massive stars is a point in their favour, too. Nobody seems to care about Piper anymore (though he was certainly over when he returned in WWE).[/quote']

 

I don't think that's fair to Piper. After all, his body is shot, and the American crowds consist more of teenagers than the Japanese, who are less likely to get into stars of yesterday.

 

On top of that' date=' all three are vastly superior workers. Many believe Kobashi to be a shoe-in for the best worker of all time. I can't think of anyone who has ever backed up a claim to justify not including him in the top five. THAT doesn't qualify him to be in a top 100?????? There is still 'wrestling' in wrestling, right?[/quote']

 

Besides Meltzer, I've never seen anyone say that about Kobashi actually. He's fucking great, and should probably be on a top 100 list, but looking at that list, there isn't many I would exclude in favour of him.

What is RIM ? Why is AJ Styles called Euroboy ? Who's the best wrestler never to win a world title ? What shoot interview should I get ?

Stan Hansen while popular in Japan surely Fred Blassie and the Destroyer were bigger stars in japan

Destroyer; yeah probably, but Blassie wasn't in the league of Hanses in the department.

While he held the World Title on-off for a fair portion of the 90

6. Andre the Giant

That