MrDanger

I'm arriving on the 11th too and I'm not sure whether to go to the MLW show on the Friday, I was originally planning to checks out the Nets game at the Meadowlands as a dry run for the trip to Raw but I'm not too sure what to do now. Ah, I'll see.

The AA flight arrives in NY at 7pm will i have enough time to exit the airline, colect my luggage and get to the registartion site in two hours?

I’ve got a mate who went to New York last year and it took him nearly two hours alone to get through immigrations at JFK. Of course that might just be a one-off.As for hotels, I’m going to book into the Ramada New Yorker, which is cheap & tacky but right next to MSG.

I’d just like to say that this thread rules. That is all.

Report of Nakamura vs. Takayama from Stu himself:

Just watched Nakamura vs. Takayama on IWTV. Very good match, similar to their Budokan match last June. It started equally, with Nakamura showing his stuff on the mat. The turning point came when Takayama started attacking Nakamura's broken nose. Ouch. It resembled Takayama vs. Koshinaka from the 2002 G1, only Takayama wasn't taking the punishment here. Takayama worked REALLY stiff with Nakamura, throwing some full force knees, punches, and kicks to the face. Crowd was kind of quiet (although maybe Steve can tell us more, as it's often hard to hear the Dome on TV unless the majority of it is cheering), but some support evident for Shinsuke. The support really picked up later on when Nakamura began showing his fighting spirit. There was a cool scene where Nakamura did the same counter he beat Tenzan with, which got a lot of heat, but didn't finish off Takayama. Takayama kept kicking him in the face during one scene, but Nakamura kept screaming out, remniscent of Chono vs. Takayama from the 2002 G1 final. Takayama landed his running knee kick for 2.5, landed another knee shot, then hit the German for 2... Nakamura turning over and countering. Takayama screamed, then tapped out. There was a HUGE pop, then a hush, as people couldn't believe it (IWTV went off at this point). Really good, as I said, similar theme to Nakamura vs. Tenzan (slightly less one-sided), but a better match. Would have come off better in a building where you can hear the heat more, like Sumo Hall, but heat wasn't too bad. It was weird for a Tokyo Dome main event, not really a "main event", but I think the dream tag match was the "real" main event, and this was on top because of the titles on the line. Right now, Nakamura is an underdog champion who comes across as a genius who picks the right moment to get the win. I think this is a lot more convincing than him suddenly becoming invincible. However, they will need to figure out a way for Nakamura to gradually become "stronger". I think the perfect way would be to pair him above someone notable who he can be even with in terms of offense, then defeat. Then after that, it'd be easier to believe him as having equal offense to someone higher up. Having said that, the "get beat up and come back" persona might work out, because Inoki, Sasuke, Onita, and others have pulled it off with success, and Nakamura has good ring presence. It'll work better when Nakamura is a little more credible overall though. Can't wait to see where the title reign heads, we should find out his February title defense (if any) in a day or two.

Apparently Nakamura is now a genius and mixture of Antonio Inoki & Atsushi Onita Apart from Stu laying it on a bit thick, I agree with his comments on how they're handling Nakamura's reign so far.

Kensuke Sasaki. The show was absolutely dead in my opinion until he showed up. Man got booed out of the building. Why?When Tenzan was on offense, everytime he threw a punch the crowd shushed him. Why? He would hit and they would go SHHHHHHHHHHH

"Some Guy" evidently knows nothing about NJPW.These two points, for example...Sasaki walked out on NJPW a year ago to form WJ. The fans don't forget treachery like that.The fans always hiss for Tenzan's Mongolian Chops - and in anticipation of them. Dunno the origin, but it's a long-standing tradition.Also, "Some Guy" has never seen Gedo & Jado before.Yes, what a useful report.

LOL! I didn’t say the guy was any kind of expert on New Japan. Being the first live report to emerge from the show, I thought it was interesting perspective and slightly contradicted some of Stu Max’s second hand notes.

Concerning the Tokyo Dome show, I can really only echo what's already been said.It looks like Yasuda has finally been sent packing.Liger vs. Sugiura should be a bunch of fun. Gedo & Jado retaining both the belts and their jobs suck. Nagata vs. Sasaki sounds terrific. Tenryu jobbing in his first match is pointless. Tenzan doing another high profile job rounds off a pretty frustrating year for him. Nakamura going over was the right result. Some guy's live report from the show:

Ok. I'm back from the show. My wife and I debated this quite a bit. I dont think there was a head over 50,000 there. SUPPOSIDLY I'm supposed to get an email tomorrow with how many people walked into the dome. I'll be curious to see if it arrives. If it does keep in mind that is how many people ATTENDED not how many paid for a ticket and didn't show for whatever reason. Some of the first few shots you can see just how many empty seats there were. Being this was my first Japanese wrestling show without the distractions of 6 other Americans there heckling I think I can give a good rundown of what I thought. Problem is, its going to have to wait until tomorrow morning Japan time before I can put all my thoughts into a readable "article" or whatever. I'm as tired as I've ever been. I will point out a few though and ask a question or two. Kensuke Sasaki. The show was absolutely dead in my opinion until he showed up. Man got booed out of the building. Why?When Tenzan was on offense, everytime he threw a punch the crowd shushed him. Why? He would hit and they would go SHHHHHHHHHHHJosh Barnett as a working professional wrestler is awful. I dont know who is worse though. Him or Bob Sapp. Make these guys believable and teach them to work WORKING style. Damned entertaining seeing the reaction of the crowd when they entered their respective matches. If you have never been to a Japanese wrestling show it is quite the site to behold. The crowd is so silent I'd be willing to bet my yelling "Thumb 'em in the eye" was heard by guys in the ring. Jado and Gedo besides Sasaki were the only other true heels on the show that worked LIKE HEELS. Some may not like them but this was my first time seeing them and I thought they were pretty entertaining. Where did the ASWESOME pictures from the dome come from like backstage? Seeing those makes me sad to post mine. Mine are at http://www.SharpWideWeb.com/tokyodome/index.htm

Hiro Saito & Tatsuhito Goto

Naomichi Marufuji & KENTA

Mick Foley's walk-out. Just an awesome piece of storytelling.

Kenta Kobashi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa- March 1

Hirooki Goto

The Mr. America mess for me too.

Kenta Kobashi winning the GHC Title.

The Rock/Hurricane Hamburglar segment.

Shocker

Kenta Kobashi

Shane McMahon

Where is Kurt Angle?, Was he rated and I missed him? or did he not even make the cut?

Kurt Angle really doesn’t deserve to be on the list. Never a consistent draw, minimal cross-over appeal, no real influence on the business and a inconsistent worker.

Two of those (vs. Jericho and vs. Angle) weren't the main events.

You don’t have to be the main event to be the main draw for the show.For example, you’d have to be crazy to think the Rock vs. Benoit vs. Taker vs. Kane match was the main draw for Unforgiven. Likewise, Triple H vs. Jericho was clearly the most promoted match in the run-up to Fully Loaded, which included a singles match between the two on Raw that drew a massive quarter hour rating (One of the highest in the history of Raw).

The other two matches include The Rock.

Much like Unforgiven, Summerslam was completely focused on Triple H vs. Angle.In fact, The Rock was a complete after-thought in that match as he barely featured in any of build-up (Which obviously centred on Triple H/Steph/Angle/Trish). The Judgement Day PPV was shown as an indicator of his all-round drawing ability during that period (Angle vs. Triple drawing more than Rock vs. Triple H).

HHH doesn't at all, IMO.

I don’t think he does either but I’m sure a good case could be made for him over the likes of Jesse Ventura and Sting, especially if his upcoming movie career surprisingly takes off.

I agree with the first three, but I wouldn't class Takada as a bigger draw than The Rock. His most successful run was probably the three consecutive Dome sellouts in 95/96, and while very impressive, I would say The Rock from 99-01 was a far bigger draw.

And there was a Takada vs. Tenryu headlined show at the Jingu baseball stadium that drew over 40,000 for the UWF-I in the summer of 1996, plus you also have Takada’s cross-over into Pride that obviously drew superbly (Three crowds over 35,000) and pretty much put Pride on the map.Obviously it’s tough to accurately compare the two due to their vastly different environments, yet I’d say Takada was a better big match draw than Rock and clearly more influential in the development of the business.

HHH didn't do big numbers without Rock, Austin and Foley as I recall

Judgment Day: Triple H vs. The Rock (1.05)Fully Loaded: Triple H vs. Chris Jericho (1.04)Summerslam: Triple H vs. Kurt Angle vs. The Rock (1.4)Unforgiven: Triple H vs. Kurt Angle (1.5)I think that makes it pretty clear that Triple H was drawing against everyone in 2002. Ironically enough though, Triple H's worst drawing main event program that year was against none other than Steve Austin, although they rectified that the following year by drawing a 1.6 buy rate for their big blow-off match at No Way Out.

When did The Rock draw big money without either one of these stars? Maybe Hogan at Mania 18, but that was Hogans draw, Hogan would have got that draw with anyone - HHH, Stone Cold, Undertaker, Kurt Angle or the Brooklyn Brawler - The Rock cannot get credit for that draw.

Hogan vs. Rock actually posted a really disappointing Mania buy-rate of 1.6, down from 2.2 the previous year for a re-run of Austin vs. Rock.

Rock belongs on this list, HHH doesn't.

The Rock certainly does deserve a spot somewhere on the list, just not at no. 16

Well Rock's got two massive arena sell outs under his belt (I know he didn't main event Mania 18 but to give credit to Jericho and HHH would be crazy)

Both shows were pretty much sold out weeks in advance of any matches being announced for either show.

and some stunning figures during that period, especially during 2000 where post Foley and pre Austin he was the only major draw.

Erm, Triple H?

ratings always go up when he returns nowadays he just doesn't stay long enough for it to have an effect

He’s first return back in the summer of 2001 popped a couple of big numbers, now he does nothing major: Smackdown ratings- January 2003Jan 2: 3.4Jan 9: 3.4Jan 16: 3.4 Jan 23: 3.5Smackdown ratings- February 2003Jan 30: 3.2 (Rock’s return show)Feb 6: 3.3 Feb 13: 3.2 Feb 20: 3.4 He didn’t exactly set the program on fire did he?Oh and obviously the buy-rates for No Way Out (Rock vs. Hogan) and Backlash (Rock vs. Goldberg) were hugely disappointing.

I swear I've seen Muchnick mentioned as a wrestler (albeit a lower one) on a couple of cards before he got into promoting. It could be me just getting mixed up with any one of the NWA founders, mind.

Lister will probably know but I can remember Da Meltz saying Muchnick never wrestled.If he did indeed have an in-ring career then I assume it was pretty unremarkable.

If you can think of over 5 wrestlers that drew more then Bret in the WWF you'd be strugglig...

Hulk Hogan Steve Austin Bruno Sammartino Billy Graham Bob Backlund Andre The GiantAntonino RoccaPedro Morales Triple H Randy Savage The Rock Roddy Piper Do I need to keep going?

I agree about your first point, at least compared to some of hte heavyweights in the drawing department (Inoki, Hogan, Sammartino, Baba, Austin etc), but I don't think it's fair to call him a transitional champ. Sure, he was the man between the successful stints of Hogan and Austin, but he did have the belt on and off for a period of five years, most of them which he drew at least respectfully.

While he held the World Title on-off for a fair portion of the 90’s, I thought it was fairly clear that Bret was simply keeping the belt warm for Vince’s next “megastar”, whether it be Yokozuna, Diesel or Shawn Michaels. Of course Bret was probably a better draw than all three but I still think Bret’s spells on top were always transitional spells for Vince’s next golden boy.

For his home promotion, yes, but Andre was a far bigger draw worldwide than Baba. Andre guaranteed sellouts in every territory throughout North America, Mexico, Japan and Puerto Rico. Comparing Baba's drawing power to Andre's is ridiculous.

Baba drew plenty of money in Puerto Rico, Los Angeles, Texas and Detroit.Baba could have easily been one of the top foreign stars in the US if he didn’t have such huge commitments back in Japan.Besides, Baba was and still is a genuine household name in Japan, could the same be said of Andre in the US? The sum total of Andre's recent fame in the US is a throw-away line on the Simpsons and a biography that aired on some obscure US TV channel.

Didn't spot Sam Muchnick on this list....

That’s because Muchnick was simply a promoter.I don’t know the exact criteria of the list but surely a wrestler’s all-round contribution to the business has to be considered? For example, it would be crazy to ignore Jaguar Yokota or Ultimo Dragon’s trainee records when judging their candidacy for the list. The fact that Jesse Ventura made the list at all seems to point that outside factors were considered too.

Like it or not, few people in wrestling history have drawn more money than The Rock.

That’s ridiculous, The Rock was a big draw for three years (Summer 98-Spring 01), now his drawing ability is patchy at best. I could name numerous wrestlers with better short term drawing ability (Maeda, Austin, Onita, Takada etc), never mind the countless wrestlers with better long-term records over the course of a career (Flair, Inoki, Bruno, Dusty, Baba etc).

Your praise of Choshu in terms of revolutionising puroresu could equally be applied to Brody. In fact, more so.

Huh?Please explain that to me, how did Brody revolutionise the structure of Puro? How did he evolve the in-ring style of All Japan? How did he mastermind the elevation of several fresh megastars?

I wouldn't have him this high, but I think "Consistently elite worker" describes Bret to a tee

I think “consistently good worker” fits Bret better. With the possible exception of 1997, I can’t think of a single year where I’d place Bret in the top 5 workers in the world.

A few placings that caught my eye:

6. Andre the Giant

That’s a ridiculous position, Andre was a short-term draw at best and only a mediocre worker in his physical prime. There’s absolutely no way he should be ahead of Giant Baba, who A) Was a far better worker B) A better long term draw and C) Ran a hugely successful promotion for over 25 years and was universally regarded as one of the greatest bookers of all-time.

14. Stan Hansen

I love Hansen but this is another baffling position, his star status in Japan pales in comparison to The Destroyer (No. 79!) and with the exception of his run with Sammartino in the 70’s, Hansen was never a particularly big draw in North America.Hansen is at least 30 places too high.

16. The Rock

This is probably the biggest joke in the entire list, how on earth is The Rock this high? He was only a big draw for 3 years; he’s only had a handful of truly great matches and his promo ability doesn’t match up to the likes of Ric Flair and Dusty Rhodes.To hit home this ridiculous placing, just look at Riki Choshu at no. 19.Here’s a guy who’s heel turn revolutionised the entire Puroresu industry by changing the way promoters viewed Native vs. Native matches, he and his Ishin Gundan crew revolutionised the All Japan in-ring style during the mid 80’s and let’s not forget the fact that he might just go down as one of the greatest bookers of the modern era due to his incredible run at the helm of New Japan during the 1990’s.I ask you, who deserves to be higher?

18. Bruiser Brody

I know Dave Meltzer helped compile this list but Brody’s placing really is a glaring example of favouritism. Yeah sure, Brody’s style may have influenced others and he was undoubtedly a huge draw throughout his time in Japan. Yet as an actual in-ring worker, Brody was somewhat limited and horribly repetitive, plus it’s impossible to ignore his backstage antics, which included repeatedly refusing to lose to Antonio Inoki, which could have killed off an already struggling New Japan.Brody wouldn’t make my top 50.

25. Bret Hart

Mediocre drawTransitional Champion at the high of his careerNever a consistently elite worker Far too high.

http://www.madisonsquaregarden.com/seating.htmlThis might just be the coolest thing in history, you can literally pin-point the section your sitting in and get a clear photograph of the view from your seat.

http://home.comcast.net/~prowrestlingtours/They regularly run bus trips from New York to both Philly and Jersey for ROH shows.