TheBigBoot

Sad news. I never met Stew or knew him personally the way a lot of people here did but over the years I had plenty of discussions with him on UKFF and RIM over the years and always enjoyed them.

$tew was one of the main contributors to this forum when I started reading it back in 2001-02 and later one of the first people I interacted with on here.

At the time he had Big Show in his avatar and was a big fan of New Japan, Gotch-ism, headstands and Osamu Nishimura.

I remember his explanations of “MUGA" style wrestling very well.

Someone who really knew his stuff when it came to pro wrestling and whose posts I would look out for, I liked getting his take on things like WWE's Diva Search, early TNA, Triple H, the Trish/Lita feuds, and, when TWC started showing World of Sport, the 'Holy Lightweight Trinity' (Breaks, Grey and Saint). He always came across as both knowledgeable and a great guy in general.

My thoughts are with his family and all those who knew him well.

RIP

Yes it was.

WWE doesn't do subtlety and that's not a bad thing. You want all of your audience from five to seventy five to understand the point you're trying to get over.

Personally, I take the fact that they hinted at it as a sign that Cena isn't turning.

I could swear I read somewhere it was Gorgeous George (the old time wrestler of course, not Macho's shag circa '99). Can't remember where I heard/read that though so could be a load of bollocks.

No, it's true. He came to the ring to the tune of Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance.

Yeah, he did. Also from the 50s era The Fabulous Kangaroos used Waltzing Matilda. Those must have been some of the earliest wrestler-specific entrance themes.

As for where you saw it mentioned it could well have been in the old Apter mags, PowerSlam or on here. Since George always seems to be given credit for it whenever the question has been asked before.

I'm not convinced George was the first, because you would think someone would have tried it before then but he may have been the first "big name" to use it.

So the answer to the hitman's original question is that I doubt anyone actually knows for certain.

Hogan's claims seem to be based on him having said that on an episode of one of the Saturday morning kids shows he got interviewed over here on back in early 90s. May have been Motormouth. A lot of people saw that at the height of the British boom period and it's stuck and I've heard people repeat it not only on here but in real life both at the time and years later when I was at uni.

Like everything else Hogan says, take it with a couple of buckets of salt. FWIW, he wasn't even the first guy to use an entrance theme in the WWF since- Sgt Slaughter already used the Marines' Hymn back in the 70s.

From what I've seen, wrestlers in the 1970s Japanese and British scenes walked out to music but in the case of sticking on a classical track in the background rather than it being someone's specific theme tune that was part of the wrestler's gimmick. I know Big Daddy's We Shall Not Be Moved was.

Not sure about 70s Mexico but one of the lucha fans might know?

From the USA in that late 70s-early 81 period, in addition to the ones mentioned Jerry Lawler, Roddy Piper, Jimmy Valiant, (Bad, Bad) Leroy Brown and one or two others all had music early on. After that lots of people did so they did popularise it.

The ROH Briscoes are from Delaware. They're the only ones I can think of.

 

Also, from Florida - you should've put Savage, Rock and Hogan!

Texas - Funk, yes, but also Taker, HBK and Steve Austin.

 

Apparently Ultimate Warrior, Mick Foley, Dick The Bruiser and Damaja are all from Indiana originally.

 

Quick bit of research says Paul "The Butcher" Vachon was from Newport, Vermont. I always thought he was from Montreal or somewhere in Quebec. (Also, one of the first results to come up on Google is a John McMahon, who was apparently a competitive, collar-and-elbow pro wrestling champion in the 19th century, back when it was still legit. So there you go, nominative determinism at its finest. Vince will never escape wrestling until he changes his surname.)

 

Seems Seth Rollins is from Buffalo, Iowa.

 

Also, Kevin Sullivan's a great choice for Massachusetts, but Cena's from there also.

Interesting about the Briscoes. Need to see more of them, good to know Delaware at least produced some wrestlers.

I knew many of those but the idea was to name one from each place. If I listed all the wrestlers from Texas, Florida and Minnesota it would take a week.

Cena was the only other name guy I could think of from Massachusetts but he never did anything as cool as this: http://www.dailymotion.com/gb//1#video=x122ul

"All this built up HAY-tred" > "Rise above hate"

So Sully it is.

Still is strange to me there aren't that many guys who made it to WWF from Mass when Boston Garden was the companies second or third (behind MSG and Philly Spectrum) home.

Checked quickly - seems Ted DiBiase is from Omaha, Nebraska.

Think DiBiase must have been the one I was the one I was thinking of. Didn't want to cheat and look it up but that sounds familiar.

Turns out Bob Orton Jr. was the one I was thinking of from Kansas. Class wrestler and pretty underrated as a character.

I'll have a go at the States thing (using worked hometowns people are billed from) ...

 

Couldn't do it, but not bad.

That's a cracking attempt to be fair.

 

You'll be kicking yourself with 2 or 3 though - i'm thinking Maine, wisconsin and Wyoming...

Thanks and I'd forgotten that angle with

I'll have a go at the States thing (using worked hometowns people are billed from) ...

It was Punk that came up with it, according to himself. It is very Jerry though, so Lawler having a hand in it wouldn't surprise me.

 

He came up with it, but Lawler was well in favour of it according to Punk.

That surprises me a bit.

Wasn't a fan of the angle myself but I just presumed it was something Lawler came up with and Punk and Heyman went along with. At least that seemed to be the defense of it I saw from Punk fans at the time (not on here, I don't think I even looked at the thread but the defense in general).

Not surprised Lawler was for it though, a lot of people will remember Michael Cole mentioning Lawler's mother's death but what most people probably don't know is that Lawler used the deaths of both of his parents deaths, his best friend Sam Bass (who died in a car crash) and Andy Kaufman in angles at various points over the years. So I'm sure he wasn't really bothered, it seems like it's all "just rasslin" to him and if you can make some money from it then so be it.

Still not something I enjoyed watching play out on TV but not because of any offense to the King.

I also think publicly traded, PG rated, major advertising attracting WWE is a completely different beast from Memphis as far as what can/should and can't/shouldn't be used.

EDIT: I've looked at the relevant thread on here: http://ukff.com/index.php?showtopic=131808

No incentive to read it all but it seems to have been mostly negative/that if Punk needs to do that to get heat then he's in trouble. FWIW I agree with what IANdrewDiceClay said there just an offensive angle that couldn't actually lead to anything. So it was also a pointless one. Although I wasn't aware of this bit:

800,000 viewers turned off when the heart attack angle was going on. Not before or after. During. Like as they were doing it. They returned to see Ryback beat up that fake referee and left again when their biggest star Cena and their champion Punk wrestled later on in the show. Jim Ross and Steve Austin have buried the angle in public, as well.

 

That's some good heat there. Good job.

So actually it was much worse than I thought. That a few people here - who I'd assume they would be far more used to tasteless wrestling angles than your average occasional Raw viewer - also felt so turned off by it they changed the channel isn't a good a sign if that's the kind of ideas Punk comes up with. No wonder they've turned down his other suggestions.

Given that Paul Bearer's actually dead now, Undertaker turning up with an urn wouldn't seem to be in the best taste as far as tributes go. I agree with Butch, a little nod to the sky will be nice.

 

Agreed. If UT doesn't like attending HOF ceremonies because of the connotations of his gimmick, I don't think bringing the urn with him would be a particularly tasteful tribute to Bearer. It's such an odd deal, though - the whole Undertaker gimmick was always going to be a bit odd in the context of real-life deaths, to be fair.

Including his own. Which hopefully will be many, many years away - I like Taker a lot and certainly not wishing death on the guy, but his character has "died" so many times it makes stuff like that seem a bit "odd" as you mention when the time comes to acknowledge real life.

This might sound a bit of a strange question as its to do will merchandise in general. Over the years ive been buying DVDs from different traders of these promotions WWE, ECW, Georgia, Mid-Atlantic, Mid-South/UWF, WCW, AWA, Florida, Central States, Continental, Memphis, Portland, Pro Wrest USA, St Louis, SMW, SouthWest, Stampede, WCCW, Pro Wrestling This Week, TNA, NJPW, AJPW, Shoots, ROH, AAA, CMLL.

 

Are there any other promotions worth trying to get hold of?

 

global/fmw

Sounds like a really impressive collection. Well, apart from TNA and ROH.

I'll second those and say from Japan SWS, WAR, UWFi and MPW would be the obvious ones. Such a fun cast of characters, foreign and native, hanging around Japan in the 90s.

I'm relatively clueless on current Japan, but I would recommend early to mid 2000s NOAH since you like AJPW. Wasn't a big fan of what I saw from the first year or so but after that it got really good for a few years at least in terms of the big matches.

In terms of older lucha what I've seen of UWA is really impressive so that might be worth checking out. Someone else will know how much footage is/isn't available.

I'm guessing you aren't a Joshi fan based on the above, what about British wrestling? From the UK World of Sport and Reslo had plenty of great matches.

And now a question of my own: what is Central States like? Always ignored it because it sounded pretty poor but I may be misjudging it. Anything worth checking out?

[Haven't actually seen much Portland or Stampede either (despite their probably been more footage of those two than a lot of others) but that's more because I haven't gotten round to them yet than anything bad. I will do eventually though: I'm always seeing 'new' old stuff. Actually only got into SouthWest within the last year and I have seen has been great]

At one point, there was a crash at RIM (actually, I think it got hacked) that corrupted the member database and consequently the usernames on the older threads no longer match up with who actually made the posts at the time, so the nobody is who you think they are, which makes it all very confusing.

I'm not even that much of an ECW fan.

When Vince removed him from TV because he wasn't happy with him after his strong start towards the beginning of last year I think he lost a bit of momentum.

When he came back the character had been tweaked a bit (including a different finisher) and he'd dropped all that stuff NEWM mentioned, presumably under orders from management.

Don't think the bad dancing hurt Clay as much as him having what seemed to be the exact same match week. Even Goldberg had to change things up more than that and he had a much more watchable week-to-week act.

Essa Rios faced a bunch of folk around that time. I remember Samoa Joe and Low Ki.

Didn't Ki land himself in the weird WWE doghouse because during the match he got himself over?

 

I'm sure I read that somewhere at the time.

I've heard that before as well. I think it was that he was seen as getting to much in when he was supposed to be the jobber not the star of the match.

Was Matt Hardy really any good as a singles guy, or did he just have a good entrance gimmick?

One of the best in the world.

He could always work singles but from the time he got fired in 2005 to 2009 Matt was one of the most consistent guys on the planet and probably the best pure babyface worker not named Rey Mysterio. His losing streak (2006)/winning streak (2007) gimmicks after he got moved to SmackDown and his run as ECW's ace in particular are well worth checking out.

During that time he also had a really great nostalgia run with Hardy Boyz reunion where they were treated as sort of this dream team (n. Beefcake and Valentine) similar to DX only further down the card, despite them both having strong singles runs at the time. So a lot of the time Matt would be in a really good tag match on Raw and then the best match (vs guys like Booker, Regal, Finlay, MVP) on SmackDown. Sometimes he was in the best and second best match of the week.

they contacted Marty Jones asking if he knew how they could get a match he had with Bret) but couldn't sort it out in time.

 

Do you think, when he picked up the phone and heard a voice saying "Hey, it's Bill from the WWE", for a second he thought "Hall Of Fame?" No, no, just interested in an old match...

If I was a retired wrestler it would be my first thought. Marty Jones was a class worker. He'd be great for the Hall of Fame if WWE ever did start showing WoS footage and wanted to stick in an "elite level worker" type to put in with the big names, although realistically I expect even if they did start acknowledging British wrestling he'd be quite a way down the list of the few names they'd stick inc (look at all the big territorial names not in there). Now the Observer Hall of Fame... maybe.

It was an unintentionally funny line as it was in the context of a doddery old man being unable to program the video and getting WWF/Duggan instead of Downton Abbey, presumably having mistakenly set the timer for 1993.

That's better than I imagined. Don't watch soaps so glad someone explained the reference on here.

I got a text message from one of my ex-girlfriend's on Saturday night that read "Who the heck is hacksaw jim Dugan?" Wasn't expecting that.

Love unexpected wrestling references like that.

SummerSlam '88, marvellous. Beefpiece bleeding, Honky jobbing, Liz' skirt coming off. The best heel of 1988 was the BBFC for giving the tape a 15 cert.

Technically it was the Heel of 1990 then. One of the first WWF VHS to be released over here in fact. Great time for wrestling fans.

Big Show really shouldn't work as a heel. He's just so likeable, but he's made it work. Particularly liked the line about how he didn't even mind entertaining the fans, it was just part of his job rather than saying he hated them when he did his heel turn speech.

Heyman has been the best part of Punk's act this year.

Chest's point was indeed always one the main criticisms of Michaels. I have mixed feelings about it but when you've had as many matches as Michaels did it's going to 'fit' some better than it does others.

Good assessment of Sheamus there BigB. I adored the Show match too. It's quite exciting just how good Sheamus could go on to become with how good he is already. He's had so many good matches in 2012 and his style is great, he's not afraid to take his licks, his matches look brutal in the right kind of way and he looks like he's been through a war afterward too (as you really should). I think his wrestling style perfectly suits the sort of wrestler he should be, a barbaric warrior. If he just sorted out the hair and beard to go with it and didn't have so much comedy promo time i'd be all over him.

Very true. He's only really coming into his prime now. No reason why he shouldn't continue to improve as the years go on. If he has a few more years like this he could be something really special.

I think the biggest challenge going forwards will be keeping his character fresh/interesting similar to Orton who could also have many years ahead in theory

Brilliant point. I think it was Flair that said how important it was that your opponent looked good so that it meant something when you beat them.

Thanks. Still haven't seen his ninety hour shoot (although I have it sitting around) but going by his book, other interviews and even from before that just watching his matches Flair was indeed a big proponent of that philosophy of building your opponent up. From the other oldtimers I know Harley Race and Terry Funk subscribed to that philosophy of making your opponent look strong as well. Not surprising really, since the whole point of the NWA touring Champ routine was to make the local hero look good. You couldn't exactly show up twice a year, go in and make the top talent the promoter/booker (who were sometimes the same person as said top talent) was building the territory around the rest of the time look like a chump.

His critics would say he was too generous and I've seen that point made a number of times that once Crockett, or "the NWA" as everyone just called it, became a national promotion having him work that way/beg off from a Brad Armstrong or Tim Horner worked to his detriment when Hogan was beating people clean on the other side. I'm not sure. I just enjoyed his matches.

Cook and Arch

Del Rio and Swagger are good enough workers but I can see why they bore people.

I nominated Berty for the GFO one but not this for that reason. Thought he'd make a good babyface since I rewatched the second Super J cup last summer and also after seeing more of uncle Mil in All Japan and WWF (where he was very over). He really does remind me of both his uncle and father and there haven't been that many true Mexican heavyweights to get a big push.

Mainly because he was able to drag Sheamus down to his worst series of matches. Even then I wouldn't call the matches actively bad but they were a clear step down from Sheamus' other feuds (Bryan, Ziggler, Show) or the TV stuff with Barrett, Swagger, Orton, Jericho and Sandow. The out of ring stuff between them was also pretty poor and considering that took up a lot of his year I think it worked more against him than it did Sheamus who had all that other good stuff. I liked the actual matches in his little feud with The Big Show over the IC title although it was the second year in a row they'd done that feud and don't remember anything else about the material so it can't have stood out. Del Rio also spent part of the year working with Sin Cara which is a shame for him. Then after that Del Rio/Orton feud was solid in-ring but not exactly thrilling TV.

His matches with Cena (think there were three or four last year) were always good.

Since turning face he's been great.

I've always thought he was worthless. There was literally one occasion when i thought he might have turned a corner, when he faced Batista for the World belt at a Royal Rumble. It was a good match and he looked decent for the first time ever. It must have been down to Big Dave.

I remember Big Dave also thought that match was a carryjob, only the opposite way around:

Batista vs. Mr. Kennedy is now up.

 

They only barely beat out the last match based on at least having some selling and a better finish. Then again, a monkey with an etch a sketch could write a better finish then the last match. There was a ref bump, Kennedy used a low blow and made the cover but Nick Patrick was selling. When he recovered, Batista used the Batista bomb for the pin. Kennedy had to work for three men because Batista worked for negative one. He was brutally bad.

I went with Tensai. EVERY ChinaWres fan said he was magically ace now, and I had him down almost as an instant Main Eventer. Then it was just fucking Albert like it always was. Fat screaming bag of shite.

The worse thing is, Albert was much better to watch than this waste of space.

Agreed. I liked him in his previous WWE run as well. Not all of it, but enough.

A lot of people will point to his run as A-Train as when he improved but I think it was from X-Factor through to the early days of the brand split as a Velocity-level bully (actually, going back further I think he showed potential earlier than that as Baldo back in his Memphis days but he was a little rough around the edges when he came up to the big time).

I think the difference between A-Train and his previous stuff is it was more focused both in-ring and in terms of his position on the card since he was playing a specific role. Before that he'd go from being pushed as a monster for a couple of weeks to a comedy dancing gimmick the next and none of them would really get over.

As Train he had a role - he wasn't Lesnar/Angle (depending on who was top SmackDown heel at the time), Big Show or Cena but he was the guy you had to go through to get to them which gave Benoit, Undertaker, Mysterio, Cena (after he turned face), etc. something to do in between feuds with the Big Boys.

Since coming back he hasn't really 'clicked' and generally been a disappointment.

I still wouldn't say he's the worst (my pick Sin Cara didn't make it) guy but, like Cara, he's a guy that it hasn't 'worked' for in current WWE.

Who the fuck is Cannibal Man?

Kamala.

There's something odd about seeing my username and the "more" next to each other.

Seriously though, I couldn't vote for myself over JLM - good writer, knowledgeable, good sense of humour, never abusive to people (basically what Carbomb said) but he also comes across as an all round class act. The best evidence I can think of for that is that before I even opened the thread I expected his name to be on there/likely to win this. I think the forum is certainly better off with him around.

Despite all that I voted for Mr. Seven. Thinking about it he's brought a lot to On Topic over the years that isn't mentioned much/is always overshadowed by Off Topic/other stuff good or bad. For some reason, this poll reminded me he's one of the few people on here (Martin Walton with Jumbo years back, one or two others I forget) who got me into a wrestler I might have overlooked: Chris Masters (2005 - although that was a combination of people on here) and Skip Sheffield (2010).

Appreciate being nominated.

Makes more sense when you put it like that.

They make it work pretty well, I'll give them that. The audience react to it and Kane does a lot of selling. Just not sure it's a formula I like.

I think it just bugs me a bit because after years of tag matches with everyone from Big Daddy to Andre to Hulk Hogan to DX we've become accustomed to seeing the smaller partner (or in other teams the junior partner) take most of the abuse to get sympathy. Not so much when it is teams who are around the same size but for big man/small man double acts it's a proven formula that works.

It sometimes looks a bit odd when the heels isolate Kane (six man on SmackDown a couple of weeks ago with Orton against Barrett, Rhodes and Sandow being one), but again they do seem to work it in a way that doesn't detract from their matches for the audience. More personal preference than anything else, really.

Then the chef goes online to complain about those ignorant non-dues paying patrons who don't "deserve" that king-size burger having the cheek to come in and ask for it.

Until two nights ago I'd never seen any of these. In a decade, that shoes thread is the strangest thing I've read on here. Actually did make me laugh out loud. Bowler story might not even be Top Ten as far as some of the stories on here about Britwres go.

Don't understand the Rosegarden thing.

Butch's post on the previous page might be the most positive thing I've read on here. Shows there are some really good people on here. I think a lot of UKFFers do care about each other whether they know each other in 'real life' or not.

Nice to see them get acknowledged for it so well done to those nominated.

Probably isn't fair to the TNA teams but I expected Hell No to dominate this and they have. I still find most of their backstage skits amusing all these months later. Bryan is great, of course, and I've always had a soft spot for Kane so it was nice to see him in a role where he's an over and useful part of the roster.

The only thing I don't like about them is why they have Kane play face-in-peril. You'd think Bryan would be the Ricky Morton of the team. Funnily enough, when Kane was teaming with The Big Show last year and they'd have Show do all the selling and Kane as the hot tag guy.

Perhaps they just think Bryan gets a bigger pop from his signature moves, although I've noticed that in other WWE teams over the last decade or so (Rosey and Hurricane and The Hart Dynasty would also do this at times) as well so I'm not sure if that's their own doing or if it's something WWE likes to have as part of their established in-ring style because it goes against 'traditional wrasslin' (similar to people always losing in their hometown). At times it seems like WWE all about breaking conventions, whether they need to be or not.

I actually thought the 100th Raw might sneak this one if only because I presumed it was the only non-WrestleMania show that just about everyone will have seen whether they follow wrestling anymore or not (maybe even more so than WM).

Raw sucks since it went to three hours, not that it was always great before then. It's gotten better since the excellent Christmas show and has been decent so far in 2013 but despite the strong 1000th show and a hot post-WM to Backlash period 2012 (which is what we're voting on) was a horrible year for it as a TV show.

Edge or Orton would be Cena's 'Career Opponent' for me, so far.

 

That's what they'd like us to think! Just from rewatching the 2011 Royal Rumble, Cena and Orton were positioned to replicate the famous standoffs from the past to kind of cement theirs as a rivalry for the ages, but as I wrote in my review, it didn't really work. I think Edge, Punk, and possibly even Umaga will be better remembered as Cena opponents than Orton.

Yeah, I remember that spot in the Rumble being really awkward to the extent they did it twice (or was it three times?) almost as if they didn't think the audience had 'got it' the first time. Didn't have the impact of other similar standoff, I agree.

Felt way too forced and I put a lot of it down to them having wrestled each other so many times comparatively recently and that it was coming just off the back of Cena having his weekly confrontations arguments with Orton when Cena was in Nexus. If they'd left it a while it might have gotten a better reaction.

Then again, there were plenty who felt Edge and Cena had wrestled too many times. I'm sure Punk will get to that point as well eventually. So the question becomes if an Edge/Cena pr Punk/Cena Rumble faceoff would have gotten a bigger pop. In fairness to Edge and Punk, it probably would.

That said, Orton and Cena have good chemistry going all the way back to OVW, they rose up the ranks at the same time in WWE (the confrontation at SummerSlam 2004 was a good example of where it looked things were heading), which is where the Bret/Shawn, Austin/Rock comparisons they were getting at the time came from.

Of course, in reality it turned out it was Batista who ended up being the closest to Cena's peer which is why I think a longer feud with him could have made it seem a bigger deal for both.

I thought Umaga was Cena's best in-ring opponent. I'd even put the Rumble match ahead of the highly rated Punk ones (haven't seen the Lesnar match).

I can see it being overlooked due to Umaga's death preventing another run and the circumstances of his death meaning WWE don't emphasise it as Cena's career match as much. Which is a shame since I thought their LMS was one of the best matches of the last decade.

Sheamus had his best year start to finish. The match itself doesn't seem that popular but I thought the closing moments of the Royal Rumble with Jericho were really good

Edge or Orton would be Cena's 'Career Opponent' for me, so far. If Batista comes back and they have a long feud I could see it being him - in all their exchanges going back to 2008 you really got the sense that it was the two biggest stars of the post-MNW era battling for that number one spot and they had great chemistry together.

Really this should have been a Rock vs Cena landslide but it felt a bit hit and miss.

I'd have probably voted for "The Shield Vrs WWE".

Good call. I think if that had started a month earlier that would have been my pick. Can't see them keeping it interesting for the next year but so far it has also been comfortable the most interesting feud of 2013.

The Bryan/Henry/Show triangle that started in 2011 was easily the most entertaining feud of the year for me but it fizzled out too early in the year for it to have left a lasting impression in terms of things people would instantly associate with "WWE in 2012" - I suppose they had to make way for Show vs Rhodes and Sheamus vs Bryan. Shame it didn't happen at a time that wasn't on the 'Road to WM' because I think there was still a lot left in it.