bobbins

This is a very good question, Angle did win the European, IC, King of the Ring and World titles all in his first year, which Bret never did, but Bret was IC Champ 2 times to angles once, won the King of the Ring and The Royal Rumble, and Angles never won a Rumble. You can't call yourself a legend until you've pit yourself against 29 other superstars in a fight for survival, so Brets ahead so far. Now, Angles won 4 WWF titles, but 2 were only half titles because theres another one on Raw, so rounding it up he was 3 world titles, while Bret has an awesome 5. And Bret has also won the tag titles more times, proving he doesn't buckle under the fear of having to fight not one, but TWO men at the same time. Plus, Bret managed to survive the shock of his own Brother turning on him in a dastardly manner, while Kurts brother has only ever helped him, thus proving Bret is thrice the wrestler Angle is.

There we have it. Scientific proof.It's worth visiting KKKlassics just for Herb's posts. Do a search by member number 2122 so you don't have to traipse through the wealth of shite.

Drawing comparisons between Michaels, Rogers and Flair isn't accurate. The similarites with Thesz (in particular) and Bret are relevant which rubber-stamps the point I was making about the lack of a unique quality. This is in no way designed to be a knock on Bret, it's just that he didn't have that 'something special' in terms of a great character which made him stand out. He was a fantastic role-model because he was someone who children could admire and respect but that doesn't mean that he had a 'rare quality'. As a worker he may very well have possessed something very special, but the character is a little dry and too normal (for want of a better word) to be considered unique.

What qualities did Shawn have to separate him from every other headliner in wrestling history?

If we are talking only in terms of the WWF, then I would say that Savage vs Steamboat was as close to a ***** match as you are going to see. Michaels vs Undertaker, Bret vs Austin, The Rock vs Austin (WM X-7), Michaels vs Razor and Michaels vs Mankind are all hovering around the ****1/2-****3/4 mark.

As much as I love both guys, Savage-Steamboat isn't in the same stratosphere as Bret-Owen (WMX), Austin-Bret (WM13) or Austin-Bret (Survivors 96) IMO.

Is it not possible that Bret allowed Flair and Owen to dictate their respective matches and as a result was lost when given the task of generalling the Wrestlemania 12 epic?

No. Watch Bret's shoot tape.

bobbins > everyone

Correct.And Randy Orton > Ricky Steamboat. You know it makes sense.

OK, so who's better: Shinjiro Otani or Mark Jindrak? But remember it's not fair to say Otani, because he's worked all over the world for over 10 years and has worked with some of the best wrestlers in the world, but Jindrak hasn't had the chance yet.

Bret may well have taken it easy on most house shows for all we know, but so did EVERYONE else. It's not like today's guys are working a similair schedule to those from the past. And if Angle took it easy on his body by not doing any suplexes or taking any bumps, that doesn't leave him with a lot he can do. Whereas Bret could not take any bumps but still tell a character driven story that captures the fan's imagination without the need for any 'big move' pops.

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