natholy

I wonder how many times Barnett has cum over this news story...

My totally oversexed Italian gf took care of me last night.

Got to give props to Bob, I got home from work and have been puffin the green and reading the incredible news of this sick fuck.And Bob has had me in tears of laughter with his fucking witty as calls on numerous boards.Big props to Bob, the next pipes for you. lololregards nate holynski

The only bad to come from Liger winning the GHC Jr belt is he'll probably end up jobbing it to Marufuji hopefully not before he defends against Kanemaru, KENTA, Kikuchi, Hashi, Juvi & Marvin.

I'll go out on my own here and say that Liger will defend the GHC jr belt for a decent 8-10 months and eventually drop it to KENTA, elevating KENTA to a massive status and giving him 2005 to cement himself as the future for jr's in Japan.regards nate holynski

Report of Nakamura vs. Takayama from Stu himself:

Just watched Nakamura vs. Takayama on IWTV. Very good match, similar to their Budokan match last June. It started equally, with Nakamura showing his stuff on the mat. The turning point came when Takayama started attacking Nakamura's broken nose. Ouch. It resembled Takayama vs. Koshinaka from the 2002 G1, only Takayama wasn't taking the punishment here. Takayama worked REALLY stiff with Nakamura, throwing some full force knees, punches, and kicks to the face. Crowd was kind of quiet (although maybe Steve can tell us more, as it's often hard to hear the Dome on TV unless the majority of it is cheering), but some support evident for Shinsuke. The support really picked up later on when Nakamura began showing his fighting spirit. There was a cool scene where Nakamura did the same counter he beat Tenzan with, which got a lot of heat, but didn't finish off Takayama. Takayama kept kicking him in the face during one scene, but Nakamura kept screaming out, remniscent of Chono vs. Takayama from the 2002 G1 final. Takayama landed his running knee kick for 2.5, landed another knee shot, then hit the German for 2... Nakamura turning over and countering. Takayama screamed, then tapped out. There was a HUGE pop, then a hush, as people couldn't believe it (IWTV went off at this point). Really good, as I said, similar theme to Nakamura vs. Tenzan (slightly less one-sided), but a better match. Would have come off better in a building where you can hear the heat more, like Sumo Hall, but heat wasn't too bad. It was weird for a Tokyo Dome main event, not really a "main event", but I think the dream tag match was the "real" main event, and this was on top because of the titles on the line. Right now, Nakamura is an underdog champion who comes across as a genius who picks the right moment to get the win. I think this is a lot more convincing than him suddenly becoming invincible. However, they will need to figure out a way for Nakamura to gradually become "stronger". I think the perfect way would be to pair him above someone notable who he can be even with in terms of offense, then defeat. Then after that, it'd be easier to believe him as having equal offense to someone higher up. Having said that, the "get beat up and come back" persona might work out, because Inoki, Sasuke, Onita, and others have pulled it off with success, and Nakamura has good ring presence. It'll work better when Nakamura is a little more credible overall though. Can't wait to see where the title reign heads, we should find out his February title defense (if any) in a day or two.

Apparently Nakamura is now a genius and mixture of Antonio Inoki & Atsushi Onita

With a mixture of them 2 he could turn out to be the devil himself.regards nate holynski

Liger and Kanemoto going for their IWGP jr crowns infront of a Noah crowd against Kikuchi and Kanemaru January 26 2003 Noah.regards nate holynski

Shinjiro Otani : Nobody can make a crowd and fan get into his matches, hes really come into his own this year with the crowd and in-ring work (imo).regards nate holynski

Anyway, here's mine based on those whose work I've seen enough of.....1. Dynamite Kid- its truly amazing the way his matches STILL hold up a full 20-25 years later. Unlike someone like Tom Zenk whose matches from 10 years ago fall flat on their arses today, Dynamite's performances bristled with such energy and contained just the right amount of insane bumping and uncompromising brutality (a nasty european uppercut out of nowhere gets you every time) that its impossible not to lose yourself in the excitement. You know a wrestlers great when two decades later you can look back and enjoy their work without having to contextualise what you're watching.

I know I didn't have Dynamite in my Top 5 but the guy is incredible, I recently watched a stack of Dynamite vs Tiger Mask 1 matches from 1982 the other week and it still smokes 95% of stuff in our modern era.The series of matches are timeless classics, the crisp moves, the quickness of the reversing of waistlocks and hammerlocks draws you into these gripping contests.Just my few cents to back up cattle mutilations post to give the #1 spot to Tommy.Personally I wouldn't have him as my #1 but I couldn't really argue others not having him at number #1.regards Nate Holynski

What is the reasoning behind putting him in a Top 25 let alone a Top 10?

Because people are basically just picking their favourite wrestlers.

Thats fine, picking your favs heck I did that, but they have to have some substance as to why Doug Williams is so high on the list, instead of renound Hall Of Famers and legends in our sport.regards nate holynski

To be honest I call what Austin did as I mentioned the punches then the double bird as wrestling NOT sports entertainment.Wrestlers have been doing their little bits during matches for decades before the Vince sports entertainment term was phrased see Gergeous George and his strut during matches, or Flair and his whooo after chopping the shit out of an opponent its working the crowd and playing off who your character is.regards nate holynski

This topic appears to have swerved from pure in-ring ability to drawing ability. The two are distinctly different. Yes when I was a kid I sat glued to the screen when the likes of Hogan was in the ring but looking back his matches were terrible, by contrast somelike like Ted DiBiase putiing on the Million Dollar Dream for 20 minutes bored me rigid but now I appreciate the storytelling and the technique and I think that is waht we are discussing here. The topic asked for ability, not charisma and I think it should stay that way.

But doesn't charisma still add to the actual in-ring product example Austin whooping someones ass early on in the match hitting them with lefts and rights then giving them a double bird, that just gets the crowd going they are getting into the lefts and rights as Austin kicks his opponents ass and its like the cherry on top when he gives them the double bird, Its his natural charisma of Steve shining through.Steves saying I'm kicking your ass and there ain't a thing you can do about it with the double bird looking right at them as there down from a series of blows.Its that little bit extra which is the difference between a good worker and a great worker.regards nate holynski

The omision of doug williams from many people lists shocked me

I'm suprised with Doug getting a mention in peoples Top 10 lists to be honest.What is the reasoning behind putting him in a Top 25 let alone a Top 10?regards nate holynski

I'm going to do North America as a starting point from 1980-present day.For me it includes everything they do in that ring when the bell rings the way the story is told, the selling, the crispness of the moves, timing example when a face should have a hope spot, or when is it right for the comeback, does the wrestling look credible, does it draw me into the match, working the crowd, does it get me excited (no not in that way) etc.The following are not in order, to be honest if I wanted to do them in order you'd have to give me a month to prepare and look over matches etc.Top 5 For North America Very Fucking difficult by the way.Ted Dibiase : You couldn't get anyone better to tell a story in the ring, to get the timing spot on as well as working the crowd/me and getting me on the edge of my seat(see Vs Bret Hart SNME 1991, Vs Jim Duggan both matches including the huge blow off cage multiple stip match from Barnetts best of Midsouth vol 2, vs Ric Flair Midsouth 1985 Nov)Just a great worker, who knew what to do in that ring and work the North American style to a tee.Eddy Guerrero : Eddy as a heel is incredible to watch the tricks the sneakyness, but on top of that he is an incredible wrestler, crisp as they come, timing is perfect see the fish out of water pins from Hostile City showdown 1995 vs Malenko, have you ever wondered why when anybody else since then trys that 90% of the time it just doesn't have the same impact as it did in that match, why because that match they timed it perfectly.It was done towards the end of the match, it made sense in the story of the match by showing that they had put everything into trying to beat the man and that last pinfall sequence drew all their energy pshically and mentally.Eddy also does the small things that count all also the wrenching of a body part while he has a submission hold in etcTruly one of the greats in present day wrestling all he really needs is a world title push to cement him in the eyes of casual fans as a true legend.Bret Hart : Everybody knows my views on Bret a great technical wrestler, moves crisp, very tough in the ring everything looks real and the big thing is that he looks like he wants to win, he looks like hes in a legit fight, his matches aren't entertainment, they are hard fought wrestling contests.Also a very good storyteller (see vs Hennig KOTR 1993, PIPER WM 8, vs Owen Iron man match and WM 10 etc etc)He really grew and grew as a pro wrestler throughout the early part of his career and when he got his big singles push.Ricky Steamboat : What a wrestler, he had it all of what I mentioned above, one of the greatest guys for timing ever, fucking selling was off the charts some say Ricky Morton was one of the best sellers I always say Steamboat ahead of him for me, he always gave it his all even in matches which people would think as been just average..Ric Flair : Flair was awesome, the backing off when the babyface would start a comeback or early on during the match when Flair would be getting killed would always have me screaming at the TV set.For me Flair could also wrestle really stiff and a realistic style, the forearms Flair used to do to peoples chests, the chops all looked very really and painful.Flairs selling was always great to espically his old NWA stuff, who can remeber him screaming for his life, almost begging for his life "God No".Was very athletic and could go he was like the energizer bunny he just kept going and going, rarely would you see Flair, fluff a spot either later on maybe but during his hey day rarely would you see him fuck a spot, incredible considering how much he worked throughout the country and overseas as the NWA world champion.just my thoughts regards nate holynski

Really good thread guys.Just a quick point, I think Alex Shane was spot on with his comments of people crossing over a line people, have digs at family, threatening you, sending you shit in the mail is just not on and just plain rubbish.The problem I see (and this is using the Australian Indy scene as an example) is that most of the wrestlers love to read praise about good matches or how they've improved etc, however if say you attend a show and wrestler As match had dropped from the last couple of shows and you mention some negative comments about wrestler As match, sometimes (not all the time) they seem to get upset and call you names etc.A good example is a friend of mine who was negative to a wrestler he went and saw live the blokes match was very disappointing and he let the bloke know, that he was disappointed by it.This wrestler then goes on his webpage and for his commentary starts having a dig and gets very angry at Australian internet wrestling fans and this one bloke in particular, who gave him some criticism.regards nate holynski

And these people would be?regards nate holynski

(Hart was notorious for phoning it in at house shows)

I disagree with that statement so much it isn't funny.Some of Bret Harts best matches are from house shows, examples vs Owen Hart Iron man, vs Ric Flair Iron man, vs Flair late 1992 WWF title matches, vs Bulldogs etc etc..I really would love to know where this started and what are the examples behind it?Regards nate holynski

I'm going with my outside choice and probably the most overlooked worker of 2002Masato Tanakaregards nate holynski

OVW VS THE REVOLUTION AND ALL THE TWISTS AND TURNS and little things that have made it such a classic angle, espically critical to it is the involvement of Jim Cornette...regards nate holynski