Official ROH Discussion Thread

[MoChatra]

Here are my RATINGS~ for ROH's March 30th show, Dragon Gate Challenge:1. Homicide vs. Colt Cabana: **1/4 2. Ricky Reyes vs. Chad Collyer: ***1/4 3. BJ Whitmer vs. Jimmy Jacobs: ***3/4 4. Jimmy Yang vs. Ryo Saito: **1/2 5. Alex Shelley & Jimmy Rave vs. Bryan Danielson & Delirious: ***1/26. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Shane Haggadorn: *1/27. A.J. Styles & Matt Sydal vs. Dragon Kid & Genki Horiguchi: ***3/48. Austin Aries, Roderick Strong, & Jack Evans vs. CIMA & Naruki Doi & Masato Yoshino: ****1/4 9. Christopher Daniels vs. Samoa Joe: ****From a match quality perspective, this was quite possibly the strongest top-to-bottom ROH show I've ever seen. Just fantastic.I wasn't expecting much from Collyer vs. Reyes, but they produced a pretty good submissions-based match. Whitmer vs. Jacobs followed on from their break-up a few shows back, and they knocked out a really good ECW-style spotfest. Whitmer has really grown as a worker over the last year, and he must be under consideration for a World title opportunity before year's end.The Embassy vs. Danielson & Delirious bout was another hoot. Shelley and Rave remind me of The Hollywood Blondes, but of course they're still a way off reaching Pillman and Austin levels of greatness when those two were together. This followed your standard tag team formula but the work was good from all involved.Styles & Sydal vs. Dragon Kid & Genki was excellent. Not quite as great as it could've been, because Styles had a rare off-night with two or three miscommunications. That aside, everything was crisp and built well, and the closing stretch was sizzlingly hot.With the previous two ROH vs. DG matches being split in this best-of-three series, the next six-man bout was the decider. Holy shit was this great! Blood Gen brought their own brand of rudo posturing to the ROH ring and their work even had puro cynic Jim Cornette raving. The big heat segment was, predictably, the DG boys working over Jack Evans. Once the hot tag came, though, we went into typical DG overdrive with the match moving faster than Naz's Mercedes SLR and one hot spot after another. Real credit to both teams, because the ROH boys aren't accustomed to working at this frenetic pace, and the DG workers are used to performing in bigger rings. This went over a treat live and was the perfect way to deliver this kind of sprint with its advanced DG psychology where tons of spots all crammed into twenty minutes can still mean something. This was a pleasure to watch.The main event had a really hard act to follow, but Daniels and Joe nearly managed it. Of course, the pace was slowed down compared to what preceeded it, but the match built into another gem. It was what you'd expect, with an outing not too dissimilar to the TNA Impact belter. Daniels won it with three BMEs.Though storyline advancement, in terms of tying the previous few shows in with this, was somewhat lacking- the event centred around the DG vs. ROH series. From that point of view, this show was perfectly acceptable in that regard, and for in-ring, it was easily the best show I've seen this year. Highly recommended.

[Psygnosis]

BJ Whitmer has challenged the Necro Butcher on a promo on ROHVideos.com to a No Rope Barbed Wire Match in Dayton, Ohio.Whitmers gonna kill you! Whitmers gonna kill you!!

[gadge]

War of the Wire 2? It'll have a hard act to follow compared to Corino vs Homicide. Nice thoughts on Dragon Gate Challenge there mo - I'm waiting for the April 1st show, then I have enough tapes needed for a buy three, get one free sale.

[The Hitman]

BJ Whitmer has challenged the Necro Butcher on a promo on ROHVideos.com to a No Rope Barbed Wire Match in Dayton, Ohio.Whitmers gonna kill you! Whitmers gonna kill you!!

That match is going to be Necro at his getting his ass handed to him best!

[alexander]

PRE-SHOW:1) Bobby Dempsey d. Alex Payne in about 2 min with a Death Valley Driver.2) Handsome Johnny d. Kelly Primo when Kelly came off the top rope, but Johnny countered with a spin kick and got the pin.3) Lacey d. Allison Danger for ROHvideos.com with an Implant DDT in about 6 min. After the match, fans were offering Lacey money, which she took and promptly shredded.MAIN SHOW:1) Davey Richards d. Jimmy Rave in 18 min with a side-Jay Driller. Crowd was absolutely hot for this. Davey was extremely over, inciting "Let's Go New Guy" chants.2) Top of the Class Trophy Match: Shane Hagadorn d. Derrick Dempsey via tapout with what looked like a headlock/crossface combination. Crowd excreted on the match, and started a "Students Suck!" chant afterwards. Rest of students came out afterwards to shake hands with one another, except Shane brushed them off to celebrate with his trophy.3) Sara Del Ray d. Daizee Haze in 12 min when Sara had a Butterfly Submission on which she turned into a butterfly suplex and got the win. Danielson is on his way out to the ring with Sara remaining inside. He put over Sara as the best womens wrestler out there, then said he hated coming to CT and hopes ROH never returns.4) Four Corner Survival For A World Title Shot: Colt Cabana d. Jason Blade, Adam Pearce, & Delirious when Colt had Blade in an octopus stretch for a tapout. Completely out of nowhere as Delirious was climbing the ropes at the time.5) Christopher Daniels d. BJ Whitmer in 16 minutes after Angels' Wings followed by Best Moonsault Ever. Good match, Daniels cut a promo afterwards(which I heard perfectly over the phone thanks to the tremendously awesome sound system-kudos again Cary!), inwhich he offered a rematch to BJ any time he wanted, then put BJ over for going all out in the fight against CZW. Said if BJ ever needed a partner, to just give him a call. Allison got on the mic, apologized to BJ for her actions against him in the past, hands were shaken, Prophecy sign was done. No actual announcement of a Prophecy reborn though. Quite a few WWE fans there, as they had BJ confused for Snitsky. Allison Danger is NOT wearing the nun outfit, but instead a complete schoolgirl outfit with plaid skirt and lollipop.6) Shingo Takagi d. Ricky Reyes in 6 min with a Torture Rack turned into a Sitout F5. Shingo got out of the Dragon Sleeper by going into the corner. Basically a squash for Shingo.7) ROH World Title Match: Bryan Danielson d. Homicide in 26 min when Danielson reverses the Cop Killer and hits 'Cide with USB elbows to the head. Sinclair stopped the match right there. Pearce came out, and everyone pushed for more time. Cornette was called on the phone for a decision, and he stood with the ref's ruling. Homicide got pissed off, said "F this company" and left through the crowd, ECW chant starts up. Before the match Samoa Joe came out to the ring in street clothes. He got on the mic, saying he was there in support of Homicide. He offered Homicide a handshake when Danielson took the mic away and went on a rant. Phone reception was cutting in and out every couple of seconds so it was hard to hear what was being said. Joe said he was the guest ring announcer for the match, and introduced 'Cide and then "Your temporary Ring of Honor world champion..." Brian Danielson. After the match, Danielson chop-blocked Joe in the leg, and Joe was helped to the back. Homicide also got streamers before the match.8) ROH Tag Team Title Match: Austin Aries & Roderick Strong d. Jay & Mark Briscoe in 18 minutes. A brawl for the first few minutes of the match before settling down, and was a good match as it was building up when Strong had Mark up for a powerbomb then Aries hit a missile dropkick to Mark as Roderick dropped for the powerbomb and got the pinfall to retain. After the match, Austin got on the mic to say that when Generation Next formed it was about taking all the top spots in ROH. Now with Jack and Sydal in Japan, and Roderick with himself having the tag titles, there is no need for Generation Next anymore.

Hooray for Shingo squashing Reyes. Hopefully they'll give him a big push, the guys insanely talented.So, the end of Generation Next. It makes sense, being as the group was built around taking the top spots in the promotion, and Aries and Strong are now two of the top dogs. I wonder what Evans and Sydal think about this though...The build to Danielson/Joe continues. The only other singles match they had in ROH was at Midnight Express Reunion, and it ruled all. Both are guys are far better wrestlers now...

[RCD]

Have they ended Gen Next though? Just because they don't want to be called Gen Next doesn't mean they're not all still a group. It could also mean they don't want the Aries/Strong tag team to be called Gen Next as that's the groups name.

[King of my World]

The build to Danielson/Joe continues. The only other singles match they had in ROH was at Midnight Express Reunion, and it ruled all. Both are guys are far better wrestlers now...

They have actually had three singles match in RoH, at 'Revenge on the Prophecy', 'One Year Anniversary Show', 'Midnight Express Reunion' Edited June 4, 2006 by King of my World

[stone]

sydal was still in generation next even though he had several matches with aries and strong? wierd

[Froggivizal_Version1.0]

sydal was still in generation next even though he had several matches with aries and strong? wierd

It made perfect sense. Gen Next was about taking the top spots in ROH. And Sydal did just that - only the top spots where occupied by Aries & Strong so he faced them to get there spots, just like the taught him to.I hate it when ROH kill off a group then keep them together. They've done it before and it pissed me off then. They killed off the Prophercy and then kept Whitmer & Maff together. Generation Next was about taking the top spots, and they had them a year ago!! Why only decide to kill it now!!

[Adam G]

Isnt it weird that Reyes was squashed when he has been squashing people for quite a while?

[gadge]

He never squashed anyone of consequence though. Last night's show looks decent. I've just ordered 'Best in the World' through to the 100th show on DVD, so hopefully I can start getting some thoughts up by next weekend.

[MoChatra]

I caught Supercard of Honor a few days ago. It's the second of three shows that took place over three days prior to WrestleMania 22, and the first of two in Chicago. The line-up of the show, and my star ratings are:

 

1. Ricky Reyes vs. Delirious vs. Flash Flanagan vs. Shane Hagadorn (Four Corner Survival) **1/4

2. Jimmy Rave & Alex Shelley vs. Claudio Castagnoli & Jimmy Yang **1/2

3. Ace Steel vs. Chad Collyer (First Blood Match) **

4. AJ Styles & Matt Sydal vs. Austin Aries & Jack Evans ***3/4

5. Do Fixer (Dragon Kid, Genki Horiguchi, & Ryo Saito) vs. Blood Generation (CIMA, Naruki Doi, & Masato Yoshino)*****

6. MsChif vs. Cheerleader Melissa vs. Allison Danger vs. Daizee Haze vs. Lacey vs. Rain (SHIMMER 6 Way Match) ***1/2

7. Homicide vs. Mitch Franklin 1/2*

8. Homicide vs. Colt Cabana *

9. Samoa Joe vs. Christopher Daniels vs. Jimmy Jacobs ***1/4

10. Bryan Danielson vs. Roderick Strong (ROH World Title Match) ****1/2

 

Thoughts

 

The prior night's show in Detroit was ace. This show, in front of one of ROH's biggest ever crowds, was perhaps even better.

 

The opening three matches were pretty bog-standard. Delirious being Delirious was the highlight of the opener, with the pre-match bog roll bombardment being the most notable moment of a slightly disappointing second contest. Match three was the continuation of a feud nobody gives a shit about. What Collyer and Steel did was OK, but the ROH fans don't care about either of them.

 

The next match was miles better. It was handshakes all around as both teams played face in an athletic and action-packed effort that was nearly as good as the February match between Aries, Strong, Styles and Sydal. Both teams had lengthy periods where enjoyed offence before it all melted down into an unashamed spotfest. Generation Next fell to the Styles and Sydal alliance, though, when Jack Evans was pinned by Matt Sydal following a shooting star press. As hot as the action was in this tag match, it paled in comparison to what followed.

 

Do Fixer's Genki Horiguchi, Dragon Kid and Ryo Saito fought Blood Generation's Masato Yoshino, Naruki Doi and CIMA in one of the classic matches of this decade. In fact, the only match I've seen since the dawn of the millennium that I would rate above this one would be the amazing Kobashi vs. Misawa contest on March 1, 2003. It was that good.

 

I've followed the evolution of the Dragon Gate style since Ultimo Dragon launched Toryumon years back. Since then, Toryumon and Dragon Gate has proved to be one of the finest proving grounds for junior heavyweights in all of wrestling, with a progressive style that mixes state-of-the-art moves with what Gabe Sapolsky describes as 'advanced psychology'. All six guys involved in this match work a full-time touring schedule with one another, and this regularity of work has allowed the Dragon Gate roster to become an extremely polished and talented crew of performers. And boy did they perform in Chicago.

 

The match started out at a relatively pedestrian pace, with an initial feeling out process leading into sustained spells where both teams enjoyed the advantage. The second half of this twenty-minute scorcher was something else as both teams shifted through the gears until they hit sixth gear for an incredible crescendo of amazing moves and near-falls. Really, matches with this much happening really shouldn't work but this was far from overkill because the style is so smart and sophisticated, moves can be sold properly whilst the pace is maintained because the action switches around between performers in a seamless manner.

 

I've seen some fantastic Dragon Gate matches of a similar ilk in the past but this was at another level entirely. It appeared that all six had a point to prove and really wanted to show this foreign audience what Dragon Gate, its style and performers are all about. That's why the extra effort resulted in all six pulling out all the stops, and then some, in an effort to upstage those other Japanese wrestlers, such as Kenta Kobashi and KENTA, who had fought in some critically-acclaimed barnburners for ROH last year. Indeed, so great was the action, the assembled throng chanted in unison, "please don't stop". Even this jaded fan felt compelled to join them. This was something special and in my opinion, it's the leading contender for match of the year honours. Dragon Kid finally ended it with a beautiful Dragonrana on Doi.

 

Six female wrestlers from the Shimmer promotion had the unenviable task of following that match. To their credit, they put in an admirable performance with relatively crisp and tidy work which was of a far greater quality than most WWE diva 'matches'. As a showcase for the Shimmer promotion, it was definitely a match which would encourage most viewers to check out the fledgling female league.

 

The Homicide vs. Colt Cabana feud continued after this. Homicide squashed a nobody by the name of Mitch Franklin (presumably not related to Rich- sorry... I'll get my coat). Straight after this, Cabana came out and decided to go at it with his adversary of the last few months ahead of their final confrontation scheduled for the following night. Homicide overcame Cabana's attack and pounded Colt with the aid of a ladder and chair. A nice heat-up segment for the feud's finale.

 

No sooner was that segment over, so CZW's Chris Hero and Necro Butcher invaded the ROH ring to keep this belter of a feud going. Needless to say, Hero didn't praise ROH for hosting an excellent Dragon Gate match; rather he blasted the promotion in his own cocky way. Naturally, this brought Adam Pearce, Claudio Castagnoli and Jim Cornette out to deal with Zandig's henchmen. Hero and Necro dealt with the ROH boys until Samoa Joe, a cast-wearing BJ Whitmer and a zillion ROH students headed to the ring to run the CZW contingent out of the building. Not surprisingly, this was the most heated segment of the show and kept the feud simmering until the next round of all-out warfare could resume in Philadelphia three weeks later.

 

The penultimate three-way match was about what you'd expect, considering the participants. Really, the three were in a no-win situation, partly because of the short time allocation for the match (less than ten minutes- most likely because the show was running long) and the Dragon Gate and main event matches were always likely to steal the show. Not that that's a bad thing. It becomes numbing when an indy show has one match after another going for fifteen plus minutes with everyone trying their best to have a four-star-plus contest. Varying the pace of the show in this way works well for NOAH, and it's nice to see that ROH book their shows with a similar philosophy. Joe emerged victorious after choking out Jacobs.

 

Onto the main event, then. Bryan Danielson and Roderick Strong were no strangers coming into this one, with Strong having unsuccessfully fought Danielson last October and November in a pair of stellar outings. Expectations were high, with Danielson in imperious form since beating James Gibson for the ROH World title last September, and Strong having been consistently great in terms of in-ring for much of the last eighteen months.

 

The match went 56 minutes, with the first twenty minutes fought at a slow pace, though it was never boring. The action began to pick up around the half-way stage as both guys began to bust out some of their bigger moves and the action spilled into the crowd. Going past the fifty-minute mark, the match was tremendously absorbing because the chance of an upset victory for Strong was, well, strong. That and the action itself kept the fans hooked on what was happening in the ring, even though the show had run well past midnight. Just when it appeared that the bout would go the distance, Danielson pulled off the title-retaining victory with a roll-up variation.

 

Overall, this was a tremendous showcase for ROH, that had many people attending their first show produced by the company due to all the WWE fans in town that weekend. They surely must've been impressed with the event that featured a little something of everything. Hot wrestling of differing styles, interesting storylines and even a great promo (cut by Jim Cornette at the start of the show which ran down CZW and which also saw Samoa Joe and Adam Pearce beat up a pair of vanilla midgets dressed up as CZW workers). Even for ROH's most devout followers, this was quite the show and was amongst the company's best ever events. In an age when so many wrestling promotions are struggling both financially and creatively, it's refreshing to watch a wrestling promotion that has so many positive qualities about it. Long may this level of quality continue.

[alexander]

The build to Danielson/Joe continues. The only other singles match they had in ROH was at Midnight Express Reunion, and it ruled all. Both are guys are far better wrestlers now...

They have actually had three singles match in RoH, at 'Revenge on the Prophecy', 'One Year Anniversary Show', 'Midnight Express Reunion'

I of course meant to type "last singles match"

Isnt it weird that Reyes was squashed when he has been squashing people for quite a while?

Yeah, but Shingo is awesome. He therefore deserves a huge push where he can throw little guys around and pose a lot, followed by a title reign of some kind.

[$tew]

Isnt it weird that Reyes was squashed when he has been squashing people for quite a while?

Yeah, but Shingo is awesome. He therefore deserves a huge push where he can throw little guys around and pose a lot, followed by a title reign of some kind.

Agreed.As far as I know, Shingo is hanging around in the US for quite a while, right? I wonder if there's a chance he could be on the Liverpool/Broxbourne ROH shows?

[alexander]

Isnt it weird that Reyes was squashed when he has been squashing people for quite a while?

Yeah, but Shingo is awesome. He therefore deserves a huge push where he can throw little guys around and pose a lot, followed by a title reign of some kind.

Agreed.As far as I know, Shingo is hanging around in the US for quite a while, right? I wonder if there's a chance he could be on the Liverpool/Broxbourne ROH shows?

Oooooooh, now there's an idea. He apparently is on an extended stay in the US so I imagine ROH would start using him regularly. If he does show up at Broxbourne it'd make me ridiculously happy. Shingo, and a Shimmer guest match. Yes indeedy.