Boxing Thread

[David]

6 minutes ago, Egg Shen said:

Thats a decent post Dave, i have no idea if what you are talking about is correct with regards to advertising/venues because frankly i know fuck all about that stuff, but i do know that a guy reportedly making $12 million dollars per fight (though its since been reported that Fury made $1 million to fight Wallin) needs to be doing more alot business than he has been if ESPN or Top Rank are looking to make money from this thing. 

So wait, you admit to knowing "fuck all about that stuff" yet you then proceed to continue with your line that there needs to be "a lot more business" done to make money from the deal? I just laid out the numerous ways in which there is money being made from having someone like Tyson Fury or Deontay Wilder as part of your company.

As a stand-alone facet of their business, relying entirely upon gate receipts and PPV buys it looks terrible. But it doesn't rely on those two aspects alone, and it isn't a stand-alone element of their business. They've invested the money they have because having one of the top-ranked heavyweight fighters in the game, and a potential world champion, on their books is a big deal when combined with the rest of their sporting output in relation to advertising and stature.

The fact that the Wilder vs Fury II fight is being touted as taking place in the same calendar month as the 2020 SuperBowl is no coincidence, it'll fit nicely with the monthly run of advertising that will be sold then and you can expect to see the advertising for the fight itself really ramp up around SuperBowl time as well.

18 minutes ago, Egg Shen said:

Then again, I seem to remember you championing Golden Boy MMA when it was pretty clear to everyone that it was a huge flop, and you made some reference to it being a show they'd have planned to take a loss on with the plans to build for the future and how Oscar and his team knew what they were doing. How did that pan out? just saying...

I didn't "champion" them, I said that they most likely went into that initial event expecting to make a loss, which was the case. Obviously Oscar himself isn't going to come out and say that publicly, in the same way as Bob Arum isn't going to come out and say that heavyweight boxing is just a cog in the larger wheel of sports. 

Did you actually think that Golden Boy MMA was going to sell enough PPV's to make a profit that first go-round? I certainly didn't, and neither did the industry insiders who discussed it in reputable sports media. It was seen as a loss leader, with the name value of Liddell and Ortiz drawing publicity and interest that couldn't be bought by even the most expensive advertising. Entry into a new sport is a project, not a one-off deal where you make a profit straight away.

By the time the event rolled around everyone knew it was happening and the publicity from the names of the fighters had worked, but the problem with De La Hoya is that he's a bit of a basket case. That was reflected in the errors he made in the TV coverage the event would get. He fucked all that up. Much of his success in the promotion of boxing lies with Richard Schaefer and Gabriel Brener. In Schaefer you had the business acumen to back up the name recognition of De La Hoya, and when Oscar parted ways with both of them he took on sole responsibility of the entire organisation, and things haven't been anywhere near as good.

[Egg Shen]

financial success or not im pretty sure they went in expecting to do a considerable amount of more buys than 25,000, the show was a disaster.

You are spot on about De La Hoya being a basket case though.

...and you may be on the right path with your bigger picture talk with regards to ESPN and boxing. Maybe I am taking a narrower look down the boxing lense, but i still maintain that there are warning signs that it isnt quite going as planned, guess time will tell.

[David]

1 minute ago, Egg Shen said:

financial success or not im pretty sure they went in expecting to do a considerable amount of more buys than 25,000, the show was a disaster.

You are spot on about De La Hoya being a basket case though.

What coverage did the show get? It wasn't even on readily-accessible television, was it? Wasn't it Fite TV or some other bollocks? That was a disaster waiting to happen.

3 minutes ago, Egg Shen said:

and you may be on the right path with your bigger picture talk with regards to ESPN and boxing. Maybe I am taking a narrower look down the boxing lense, but i still maintain that there are warning signs that it isnt quite going as planned, guess time will tell.

Considering Fury hasn't fought a top ranked opponent as yet (which the ESPN guys will have known was the plan before inking the deal) I'm not sure how you can say there are warning signs of anything. They knew exactly what they were getting for their money, so they've either been incredibly stupid, thinking Fury was gonna pull 20,000 fans to see him fight against a couple of warm bodies, or they signed a deal this length fight-wise for a reason.

Also, considering the parties involved in this deal, I refuse to believe that everyone in the room developed a huge case of stupid. There's a process here, and it all culminates in the fight in February. The Fury deal is essentially back-loaded for the TV company, and that's where they'll make the majority of their money. Also, if Fury wins, they can then add "World Heavyweight Champion" to their roster of sports franchises and assets, which may not mean much to the average fan who downloads the shows from PirateBay, but to advertisers who want to buy a package from ESPN it'll certainly appeal.

Like I said, the days of contracts between boxers and promoters being about getting fans through the gate and selling PPV's are long-gone. Those aspects are just another part of the bigger process nowadays, especially when you're talking about a company that operates on the level that ESPN does.

Wilder vs Fury II would be a huge draw for the "being seen at sporting events" crowd, and it would be huge for advertising, especially during that SuperBowl calendar month slot.

$100 million for a five fight deal with a potential heavyweight champion is fuck all in a world where an NHL franchise has just laid out over $65 million to secure the services of a single player who's just turned 22 years old.

It's all about perception, and this is where the sports world is at today. You either pay the going rate, or get left behind. ESPN, Showtime, and other big players know that.

[Egg Shen]

Im leaning towards the side if they greatly exaggerated the amount of interest the last two fights would generate...same as Wilder/Breazeale on Showtime. They took such a hit on that that Showtime pulled out of Wilder/Ortiz, and Wilder's their biggest name.

Edited September 29, 2019 by Egg Shen

[jimufctna24]

14 hours ago, David said:

What coverage did the show get? It wasn't even on readily-accessible television, was it? Wasn't it Fite TV or some other bollocks? That was a disaster waiting to happen.

It was available on traditional PPV in the states. Although I am not sure about the specific availability. It drew an estimated 40K buys from TV PPV. That figure does not include streaming buys, a number which was not anticipated to significantly increase the overall total. 

I honestly think Golden Boy MMA was doomed the second the main event finished. The main event could not have gone any worse and it tarnished the promotion's image. The poor PPV number was probably the final nail in the coffin. 

It also didn't help that the promotion didn't have anything to come back with. If Ortiz couldn't draw on PPV with Liddell, then he likely wasn't going to draw with any other fighter available to Golden Boy. 

 

[d-d-d-dAz]

So, for anyone keeping score, I left the States and DAZN for a job back in the UK as Head of Comms for Queensberry Promotions.

As such, I think it’s important we talk about Daniel Dubois.

I’ve been doing this shit for a while. He’s the real deal. He’s very nearly the sole reason I took my family back across the world - I genuinely think he’s going to beat them all.

I also think, seriously, for British boxing there is nothing more exciting currently than the Queensberry stable. It’s ready to utterly blow up.

Edited September 29, 2019 by d-d-d-dAz

[Egg Shen]

wow, congrats. on that daz! had no idea you'd moved back over. Love your little insights though so keep them coming.

Who've you got your eyes on with Queensbury? im really likes Archie Sharp, Dennis McCann is an exciting prospect too. Looking forward to Liam Williams next fight too, hes been on fire as of late.

[Porkchopcash]

1 hour ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

So, for anyone keeping score, I left the States and DAZN for a job back in the UK as Head of Comms for Queensberry Promotions.

As such, I think it’s important we talk about Daniel Dubois.

I’ve been doing this shit for a while. He’s the real deal. He’s very nearly the sole reason I took my family back across the world - I genuinely think he’s going to beat them all.

I also think, seriously, for British boxing there is nothing more exciting currently than the Queensberry stable. It’s ready to utterly blow up.

Wow, thats impressive. I agree stable wise. What is it you actually do for Queensberry?

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

1 hour ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

Head of Comms for Queensberry Promotions.

I believe this may be a clue Choppers. 

[Egg Shen]

14 hours ago, Porkchopcash said:

Fuck me! Spence Porter was a great great fight. I wont mention thr result.

you aint wrong Pork, just a crazy12 round dog fight. Shawn Porter is an absolute machine but Spence matched him and his quality and shot picking was the difference. How the hell did Porter not go down from that shot in the 11th?

[d-d-d-dAz]

13 hours ago, Egg Shen said:

wow, congrats. on that daz! had no idea you'd moved back over. Love your little insights though so keep them coming.

Who've you got your eyes on with Queensbury? im really likes Archie Sharp, Dennis McCann is an exciting prospect too. Looking forward to Liam Williams next fight too, hes been on fire as of late.

Dennis McCann is a superstar. Archie is great and keen to get to world level ASAP, but can’t afford to start as slowly as he did on Friday against better opposition.

I’m really high on Denzel Bentley. He’s got a lot of work to do, but if he can continue getting fundamentally better whilst keeping his power, he could go places. He’s marketable, too, and keen to do the work.

I think Lyndon Arthur has a real chance to perform at a higher level.

But all roads lead back to Daniel Dubois. He’s the future of British boxing and Heavyweight boxing more generally. 

[Egg Shen]

Yeh, i wasnt really sold on Dubois until the Gorman fight, he looked great that night. Any sort of idea where he goes next? 

The stable is looking good.

oh, shout out to Warren and BT for finally having a show run a decent length. I know Dubois/Tetteh finished early but even if it had gone the distance the show would have been over by 11. Better pacing.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Egg Shen

[d-d-d-dAz]

I think Dubois needs a name on his record that resonates with the British public. I don’t think he has much trouble with any of the big British heavyweights, but based on the current landscape I’d say a Chisora or Price type name would be ideal.

In the interim, Joe Joyce beats Marco Huck for the European Title and then next year you have Dubois vs Joyce for the European Title. 

That’s how I’d like to see it play out. I think Daniel v Joe is a huge fight for British boxing.

[Egg Shen]

yeh, Joyce/Dubois is brewing nicely

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

Dubois has already fought Kevin Johnson, isn't it a right of Heavyweight passage that he also has to fight Raphael Zumbano Love? Though to be fair he is probably beyond that level already. 

A fight with Joyce will be interesting. Dubois has a much better variety of punch, and looks less mechanical than Joyce. Joyce couldn't look much more mechanical if he was made out meccano.