jimufctna24 Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, DarloKid said: how did everyone see the Taylor fight? I thought she nicked it 96-94, could be an argument for a draw. But, I certainly didn't see a robbery, thought the classier and cleaner shots came from Taylor early and that's what won her the fight. I watched the American Commentary they had it 97-93 Taylor, maybe their commentary influenced me, I don't know. I just can't see where the huge controversy has come from online and twitter Hearn got very lucky with that result. It was bad enough that his main cash cow lost. I had it a draw, if not, then Persoon winning 96-94. I don't think Taylor did quite enough to win. I agree that it wasn't a robbery though. Josh Kelly, one of Matchroom's most hyped prospects, could only salvage a draw as well, Although I did have him winning, albeit by a round or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted June 2, 2019 Author Paid Members Share Posted June 2, 2019 Matchroom didnt have a great night did they? I missed the Taylor fight, my mate said he believed Persoon won by a couple. I did see the Josh Kelly fight though. First real step up and he struggled, lots of flash but little in way of any kind of offensive success, thought he was lucky to scrape the draw. Didnt think Buatsi had his best showing either. Got through with (early?) stoppage but he was hit a lot and didnt have the sort of performance that would have people over in America getting super excited. The Smith/N'Dam fight was a bright spot, but it was a mismatch. N'Dam was too small to be in the ring with Smith. Tommy Coyle got predictably smashed but was entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted June 2, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted June 2, 2019 13 minutes ago, Egg Shen said: Do you genuinely think Joshua wanted to continue when the ref had waved it off? He made a half arsed attempt at a protest but his body language and how he was acting was showing me at that point that he was looking for the ref to wave it off. I don’t know. But I wouldn’t just jump to assuming he’s a quitter either. Plus it might not have been a question of what he ‘wanted’ if he was hurt and not fully with it. You even said yourself this... 2 hours ago, Egg Shen said: Would have been straight away, he probably had some kind of concussion. I’m just not really comfortable with admitting on one hand that a fighter may have been concussed yet then still kind of shitting on him and acting like his arse went and calling his rep as a fighter into question. To me there are 3 possible reasons why AJ didn’t answer the ref’s instructions at the end there; 1) He quit. It’s the easy one to trot out and the most sensationalistic explanation so people will jump to it. I personally find it hard to believe based on his previous getting off the canvas to stop Klitschko and surviving wobbles off Whyte and, to a lesser extent, Povetkin to go on and stop them. It’s not like he’s been known for turtling up or shying away from a fire fight in the past. If anything he puts himself in harm’s way too much. 2) He knew he was too hurt/beaten to come back and knowingly chose to ‘live to fight another day’. I don’t call this ‘quitting’. Quitting suggests a lack of bollocks and being scared to go on. And that’s what I’m seeing people say, that he ‘broke’ or ‘wanted out’. There’s a difference quitting and being smart enough to know when you’re done for the night. This is more likely than #1 for me. But not as likely as #3... 3) He was scrambled and didn’t respond to the ref because his bell was well and truly rung. He’d been dropped multiple times by a big heavy hitter. And dropped a couple of times in quick succession in both the 3rd and 7th rounds. He very well might’ve been concussed. This is the most likely and logical explanation to me. It’s funny but getting whacked repeatedly off a 20st man who also outweighs you by 20lbs can have that effect. But it’s not as sexy as the quitter thing. In the end, regardless of what AJ did right or wrong, Ruiz rose to the occasion big time last night. He was fearless and put a pace and pressure on that I don’t think anyone expected he’d be able to, including AJ. It was mad and he thoroughly deserved that moment and I’m now chuffed that he’ll clean up financially on the inevitable rematch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 11 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said: He was scrambled and didn’t respond to the ref because his bell was well and truly rung. He’d been dropped multiple times by a big heavy hitter. And dropped a couple of times in quick succession in both the 3rd and 7th rounds. He very well might’ve been concussed. This is the most likely and logical explanation to me. It’s funny but getting whacked repeatedly off a 20st man who also outweighs you by 20lbs can have that effect. But it’s not as sexy as the quitter thing. Agreed. AJ actually responded immediately when the ref asked him if he was ready to continue boxing. The ref stopped the fight because AJ had his arms rested on the ropes for longer than what is acceptable. I think AJ's head was scrambled, hence the delayed reaction. AJ has always had a good heart. He's been in the trenches with Wlad, Povetkin, and Whyte. In two of those fights he was buzzed and in serious trouble, yet rallied to take the victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted June 2, 2019 Moderators Share Posted June 2, 2019 (edited) Can we all just agree now that Tyson Fury is the best HW in the world? Povetkin worried AJs whiskers, Ruiz did for them. Imagine what Wilder connection would do. And while Fury doesn't FN bang, he's thrice the boxer of Wilder and twice of AJ. Edited June 2, 2019 by PowerButchi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted June 2, 2019 Moderators Share Posted June 2, 2019 (edited) Also as regards AJ wanting to continue, he spat out his gum shield. When I was getting pastings for the Maelor club as a teen and I spat it out I was done. Its not quitting, it's knowing you're beaten. Anyone who even mentions a participant "quitting" in a combat sport has never tried one. Normally the type who slow down for car crashes and just want to see men knock all fuck out of each other. Edited June 2, 2019 by PowerButchi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossman Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 2 hours ago, jimufctna24 said: Hearn got very lucky with that result. It was bad enough that his main cash cow lost. I had it a draw, if not, then Persoon winning 96-94. I don't think Taylor did quite enough to win. I agree that it wasn't a robbery though. Josh Kelly, one of Matchroom's most hyped prospects, could only salvage a draw as well, Although I did have him winning, albeit by a round or so. Taylor Persoon 10 9 10 10 9 9 10 9 10 10 10 9 9 10 9 10 10 9 9 10 96 95 Here's my scoring. 2nd round, they were equally as good, landing clean shots. 3rd round, they were equally as bad, nothing really landing. 6th round, Taylor got the call from her coach to box at distance. This won her the round. Then from the 7th onwards she went back to fighting closer quarters and Persoon had the advantage. 9th round, I gave to Taylor on the smallest of margins and she put everything into this round. Round 10, Taylor was gassed and Persoon punched her around the ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 37 minutes ago, PowerButchi said: Also as regards AJ wanting to continue, he spat out his gum shield. When I was getting pastings for the Maelor club as a teen and I spat it out I was done. Its not quitting, it's knowing you're beaten. Anyone who even mentions a participant "quitting" in a combat sport has never tried one. Normally the type who slow down for car crashes and just want to see men knock all fuck out of each other. If it was MMgay, it’s like turtle-ing up on the ground while your opponent wellies you, waiting for the ref to stop it. It isn’t quitting, like on a forum only to come back a few months later or with a new account, it’s knowing you’re done in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted June 3, 2019 Author Paid Members Share Posted June 3, 2019 (edited) agree with that. also points 1) and 2) in Wand's post above is what i was trying to get across in my previous post. Its just trying to distinguish the difference between what is quitting and what is conceding defeat. I probably should have used the word condede in my original post, it definitely doesn't sound as harsh. Joshua didnt clearly do either but i think he was likely hoping and looking for the ref to make the decision for him in that 7th round when he was stood in the corner. edit* as with the Khan/Crawford fight i always like to go listen to some podcasts/video post fight to get some different looks and like that Khan fight id recommend listening to the 5 Live podcast fron Ringside thats recorded at ringside seconds after the fight ended, lots of fresh discussion on what actually happened in the ring/the ending, its good stuff. Features Mike Costello, Steve Bunce, Carl Frampton and David Haye. oh, and this... 😄 Edited June 3, 2019 by Egg Shen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 Yeah I think you’re right about wanting the ref to make the decision. I think it’s important to note that this is the first time Joshua has been in this situation so he may have been trying to bide for time but ballsed it up. I do think he was done though. And so what if he did quit. Roberto Duran did it once during a round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 (edited) It's a remarkable contrast between boxing and MMA really, where in one sport fighters can tap out from a choke and no one really questions their heart, but if a boxer quits (or is even seen to have quit) then they have @Egg Shen and all his pitchfork-carrying disgruntled types giving them pelters online. This insane logic (no longer talking about you Ebb, so you can stop quoting me from here) that a boxer should hit the floor before the fight is over surely has to come to an end soon? We've seen a lot of damning evidence when it comes to repeated blows to the head in recent years, so if a fighter is either concussed to the point where he's not quite sure where he is anymore, or his corner don't really see a way back for him in the fight it surely makes sense to pull the fucker out of the bout and live to fight another day? Joshua looked to me like someone who was on automatic pilot from the end of round three, and the fact that every time a punch so much as breezed past his head his legs seemed to start taking on a life of their own is surely a dangerous sign? Referee did a grand job in my opinion, and could possibly have put another few years on to AJ's career, and maybe even his quality of life as he gets older. (For the avoidance of doubt, I'm yanking your chain Ebb. I know you're a clued-in sort) Edited June 3, 2019 by David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted June 3, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted June 3, 2019 I hate that quitting is seen as a character flaw at this level. Fair enough if you're only 5 seconds into your morning run, but at the level AJ is fighting at and weight, calling it a day and fighting another day is smart. Fighters should be more smart and less like the mumbling wrecks you see from the past. Why take another few minutes of severe damage when your body is so compromised it won't do what you want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 Exactly. The whole idea of a boxing match is that it's supposed to be a contest. The minute that it's no longer a contest and one of the fighters doesn't really have a viable way of winning you should call it a day, admit defeat and go back to the drawing board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted June 3, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted June 3, 2019 (edited) The fight highlighted the margins at this level of boxing. One second AJ was in total control - "Ruiz was an out of shape can" the headline. Then one terrible bit of decision making changed the course of his career (if only temporary) - "Ruiz was overlooked by all; what a fighter. AJ overrated and a quitter". I noticed the great Paulie Malinagioajsneh was very critical of AJ's corner over their instructions. Not something I picked up, but he reckons AJ was totally bewildered and needed more tactical advice than he received. Edited June 3, 2019 by ColinBollocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_the_Lion Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 11 minutes ago, ColinBollocks said: The fight highlighted the margins at this level of boxing. One second AJ was in total control - "Ruiz was an out of shape can" the headline. Then one terrible bit of decision making changed the course of his career (if only temporary) - "Ruiz was overlooked by all; what a fighter. AJ overrated and a quitter". I noticed the great Paulie Malinagioajsneh was very critical of AJ's corner over their instructions. Not something I picked up, but he reckons AJ was totally bewildered and needed more tactical advice than he received. I'm sure he'll be back and have some success but it wouldn't surprise me if Ruiz turns out to be Joshua's very own Lloyd Honeyghan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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