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Boxing Thread


Egg Shen

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All those people who kept throwing money at Scott knew what he was like and knew how he behaved. Who is the fool, them for offering the contract or him for signing it. 

Professional sport these days is a business. The two are inextricably linked. I'd love to watch sport played by people who are playing for the love of it, but at the highest level of any sport that simply isn't the case. And never will be again. 

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I love Hall, he isn't a fool and he gets bums on seats, but that it totally irrelevant to a sport.  That's my point. Sport may be a business but it's not showbusiness and athletes are athletes first, business people second. The desire to be the best is one of the reasons the top sportsmen and women are at the top.  Daniel Day Lewis is regarded as the top actor of his generation, but The Rock earns 10 times what DDL earned, but despite Day Lewis meticulously crafting his characters, sometimes over more than a year, he isn't as professional as The Rock because he didn't make as much coin.

Sport is sport. Entertainment is entertainment. If a form of entertainment like a tv show isn't profitable, it'll get axed or less shows will happen and a different one takes its place If a sport doesn't get the viewing figures or the ticket sales, that sport will still exist. I can't believe I'm actually arguing the toss over what a wrestler said makes a good professional being applied to a different profession.  So for that reason, I won't be investing, I'm out.

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12 hours ago, David said:

Ebb, he can't. He's got this opportunity because negotiations between Crawford and Danny Garcia fell through, and because the proposed backup fight with Luis Collazo was widely panned by fight fans in the US.

 

Another good post, but you seem to missing the part of me wanting my preffered scenario happening from the viewpoint of being a fan. If Khan was to make less from a potential Kell Brook fight i'd still want him to see him fight Brook because an all domestic grudge match at Wembley Stadium sounds bloody lovely, the last one we got there was. 

Good post though. 

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10 hours ago, Lion_of_the_Midlands said:

As for boxing and wrestling as different professions. Come on now Keith, boxing, wrestling, and MMA are all sold on the same basic premise. You are trying to get people to spend money on tickets, PPV,  or specialist networks based on people fighting, or pretending to fight. Mayweather is one of the best heels in boxing/wrestling/MMA and he understands the role perfectly. There is so much crossover between the 3 it's almost uncountable. Boxing has even gone the way of wrestling by devaluing the worth of the belts. Silver belts, regular champion, super champions, belts have never meant less. 

For all the similarities you do recognise the differences though, right? In pro wrestling there isn't an athletic competition to win a world championship, the championship is provided to the athlete who supposedly draws the bigger numbers by the promoter.

In pro wrestling the guys who earn the big money are the ones who draw the crowd, while in boxing the guy who earns the money is also the one who draws the crowd, but he usually draws the crowd in the first place due to his ability to throw hands, not based on his ability to cut a promo.

Mayweather, for all his bluster and villainy, would not be so effective if he wasn't actually as good a boxer as he claims to be, would he? His fortune isn't solely built on him being cocky, brash and a "good heel," otherwise we'd see others such as Adrian Broner earn the same kind of money and reputation.

We don't though, because that kind of "role" only works when you win, and when Broner acts all cocky and smooth only to get roundly outboxed in every big fight he's ever fought in it kind of loses its effect.

Mayweather is where he is because, first and foremost, he's a terrific pugilist. That's the very foundation on which his entire empire is built. 50-0, all that jazz. 

His schtick wouldn't be quite as effective if he was walking to the ring with 20 guys behind him all shouting out  "40-10, y'all!" would it?

9 hours ago, Lion_of_the_Midlands said:

There are plenty of players at clubs getting paid very good money and not playing. Richard Wright was at Manchester City for 4 years, and during that time signed 2 contract extensions. Never played a first team game. Made the most money he could, fair play to him. 

For me, this comes back to what I said about Khan when you said he'd taken a fight he has next to no chance to win. 

Professional sports athletes don't get to a high enough level where they become industry-known names by not believing they're the very best in the world at their chosen position or sport.

Amir Khan believes 100% that he'll beat Crawford in April and go on to defend his title successfully against Manny Pacquiao afterwards. I have zero doubt that this is what he believes is going to happen.

In football it's the same when you see a relatively unproven youngster leave a small club to join Chelsea, for example. Fans are quick to say "he should stay at the smaller club and develop as a player!" but the truth is, the increase in wages aside, there isn't a kid in the game who's attracting that kind of attention who doesn't believe he can go to that bigger club and establish himself.

That unshakeable attitude is what gets them to where they are in many ways.

Funny you should mention Richard Wright, as I know a relative of his from his time at Ipswich, and like most of those situations there's more to that story than meets the eye.

Wright wasn't just sitting there on the bench taking a wage, he was doing a whole lot more than that. If we're honest, he'd have been let go after his first contract expired if he wasn't. The guy was already earmarked as a goalkeeper coach of some repute, which is why he returned to City at the age of 35 after some pretty average years bouncing around at Ipswich (yet again), Sheffield United and Preston.

He was doing a lot behind the scenes with the academy and so on from what I'm told. The fact that he was eventually brought in to coach full-time tells its own story really.

Basically, him and Bogarde are two exceptions. The majority of players at clubs who aren't playing aren't content to just sit there and take a wage for doing nothing. Sure, financial security is very important, but most of them believe they're only an injury to a first team player, a good training session, or even a change in manager away from getting back to where they belong, and that's what they turn up every day to training in order to prove.

Back to boxing though. Amir Khan believes he has the beating of Crawford in April, and when you have $40 million in the bank making a couple of extra quid for fighting someone who you see no upside in beating doesn't matter as much to a competitor like Khan as winning another world title at MSG on ESPN.

That doesn't make him a bad professional in my eyes, it makes him a hell of a competitor. That competitive edge is why he has the money in his bank account, and why he's been able to carry out the outstanding work he's done in his local community and for charities.

I hope he absolutely whups Crawford, brings home the belt and we see him face Pacquiao at Wembley in a real showcase fight.

Anyway, we should probably leave it at that. Some terrific posts here though lads, and I've certainly learned a fair bit from each of you and how we all see things differently. Top notch.

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56 minutes ago, Egg Shen said:

The fight announcement has definitely split the fight community down the middle. 

That may be so, but that's mainly because the fight community isn't the sharpest to be fair, especially in the UK. Anyone who's been to a UK boxing event and experienced the type of people who attend and follow the sport for the most part know that thinking things through, and looking at all angles isn't exactly high on their list of priorities.

From what I've seen Khan is "avoiding" Brook because "he's scared" of losing. Absolute nonsense of the highest level, of course. 

Like most boxers, he's afraid of no one. He's spent years being punched in the face, knocked out, injured, the lot. These guys aren't afraid of much. 

There's also the Muslim factor, which tends to work against Khan to a degree. A decision made by him is viewed differently by some people than it would be if he were a white English lad with a Christian upbringing.

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20 minutes ago, David said:

There's also the Muslim factor, which tends to work against Khan to a degree. A decision made by him is viewed differently by some people than it would be if he were a white English lad with a Christian upbringing.

How many times have you heard people saying they don't like Khan because he's like Hamed? Personally I think they're total opposites. Khan gets called brash and arrogant by these arseholes but I don't see that.  I see a relatively humble guy who does loads of community work, not community service. There is one glaring similarity between Khan and Hamed and that's why some people hate him.

Fury rightly got pelters for his comments on gays and abortion.  Imagine if Khan said it. I don't think the public would be as forgiving. Sama as when AJ said stuff about his niece. I'm sure had Khan said he thinks girls should be modest and not lead men on, there would be noises about putting them in burkas and how he should piss off to Pakistan etc. 

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31 minutes ago, Porkchopcash said:

Tbf no one knows for sure what Khans real reasons for not fighting Brook, only himself.

I can tell you why. The money isn't there. That's not a fight that'll headline a card and the majority of people wouldn't give a fuck about it either. If a fight isn't going to make you money or improve your standing. Don't fucking take it.

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Really Rey?

At this point in time Khan/Brook is the best fight Khan can take money-wise. Not a headline fight? It would likely sell out Wembley Stadium and do 1 million plus buys. Reports are saying Khan is walking away from an 8 figure pay day by taking the Bud fight.

Edited by Egg Shen
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4 minutes ago, Egg Shen said:

It would likely sell out Wembley Stadium and do 1 million plus buys. Reports are saying Khan is walking away from an 8 figure pay day by taking the Bud fight.

He's not walking away from anything, he's simply taking a detour past another ATM on his way. Brook isn't going anywhere.

 

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well, yeah that too. Ive said previously in the thread that the Brook fight can still be made, my whole thing was to do the Brook fight now whilst its there and try making the Crawford fight later...though you highlighted why that potentially cant happen which is fair enough. I just like the scenario of Khan beating Brook at Wembley and then going for a belt, surely that's the ultimate win/win here, dispose of your domestic rival, bank £10 million then go for glory. Fighting Bud, getting smashed again and then fighting Brook doesn't quite have the same feel to it, though it could still sell (it worked for Carl Froch).

But for Rey to come in though and say that Khan/Brook isn't happening because theres no money in it and its not a headline fight is the most ludicrous statement made in this thread.

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This short video breaks down Khan's thought process perfectly. He sees the Crawford fight as being a chance to win a world title and beat a pound-for-pound great, and although that may not mean much to all of the business experts, it means a fair deal to a guy who wants to win titles and fight in big fights. The $40 million in his bank account will also help I'd guess, so maybe money isn't the driving force it would be with other, less financially savvy boxers.

I've heard for years how it sucks that boxers won't step up and take the dangerous fights, instead all they think about is lining their pockets in the easiest way possible, and yet here we have a fighter who's found a way to both make more money and take the big fight (as he has throughout his career if we're honest, Khan has stepped in there with some of the best) and still we hear fans crying about it.

We're getting a British fighter going to the US as an underdog, going up against an unbeaten world champion who's considered a pound-for-pound great. what the fuck is there not to like about it? We'll get the Brook fight afterwards.

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