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Egg Shen

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7 minutes ago, Lion_of_the_Midlands said:

Can I ask David, what your problem with Brook is. He's lost 2 fights against GGG and Errol Spence, 2 fighters who are undoubtedly top 10 pound for pound yet you seem to regard him as some sort of bum?

No problem with Brook, I just see him chasing Khan as similar to Junior Witter chasing a fight with Hatton back in the day. I don't blame him for doing so, but you can't expect a guy who's being offered the opportunity that Khan is to knock it back in favour of facing him.

My real problem is with fight fans not being able to understand why Khan would rather take a fight against Crawford rather than Brook at this point. 

7 minutes ago, Egg Shen said:

based on what? when was the last time he beat anyone of real note?

Based on the fact that he'll be fighting Crawford for the title on PPV from New York while Brook will be watching on the telly. He's a bigger name in world boxing terms, isn't he? If he loses to Crawford then he may find himself having to step down a notch and look at fights like the Brook one, but while he's still getting calls like the one to arrange the Crawford fight he'd be a complete mug not to accept them.

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28 minutes ago, David said:

, I just see him chasing Khan as similar to Junior Witter chasing a fight with Hatton back in the day

Isn't Khan chasing Pacquiao in the same way, and isn't Khan's problem that he chased Mayweather in the same way for so long that it lead to all the inactivity. 

I just think Khan is a bad professional fighter. Its a dangerous sport, anyone who can't understand that you make as much money as you can, as easily as you can ends up selling their title belts on eBay like Ronnie Clarke. Sure Khan isn't going to starve on his 5 million dollar payday for the Crawford fight but he's potentially flushing away a lot more than that. 

Look at it this way. The boxer who understands the game best is Floyd Mayweather. He has just got paid 9 million dollars for battering a tiny Japanese man. Floyd always tried to take the fight that made the most money for the least risk. If Khan had the same mentality as Mayweather, which fight should he take? Broken down Brook for more money, or top of his game Crawford for less. Then he should use his dislike of Brook to sell the fight to as many people as he can, thus making him more money. 

Khan is a bad professional. Scott Hall once said about wrestlers that if you gave them the choice of 500 dollars a week to be champion and win every match  or a thousand dollars a week to lose every match then 99% of them would take the 500 dollars. Its about making the most money, and Khan is doing it wrong. 

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1 hour ago, Lion_of_the_Midlands said:

Isn't Khan chasing Pacquiao in the same way, and isn't Khan's problem that he chased Mayweather in the same way for so long that it lead to all the inactivity. 

Yes, he is, and he recognises that a win over Crawford and a title belt will probably be the only way to make the fight a reality. Beating Kell Brook isn't going to cut the mustard in that regard.

1 hour ago, Lion_of_the_Midlands said:

I just think Khan is a bad professional fighter. Its a dangerous sport, anyone who can't understand that you make as much money as you can, as easily as you can ends up selling their title belts on eBay like Ronnie Clarke. Sure Khan isn't going to starve on his 5 million dollar payday for the Crawford fight but he's potentially flushing away a lot more than that. 

Look at it this way. The boxer who understands the game best is Floyd Mayweather. He has just got paid 9 million dollars for battering a tiny Japanese man. Floyd always tried to take the fight that made the most money for the least risk. If Khan had the same mentality as Mayweather, which fight should he take? Broken down Brook for more money, or top of his game Crawford for less. Then he should use his dislike of Brook to sell the fight to as many people as he can, thus making him more money. 

Khan is a bad professional. Scott Hall once said about wrestlers that if you gave them the choice of 500 dollars a week to be champion and win every match  or a thousand dollars a week to lose every match then 99% of them would take the 500 dollars. Its about making the most money, and Khan is doing it wrong. 

You do realise that Khan's net worth a few years back was quoted at $40 million, don't you? He earned $13.1 million from the 2016 Canelo fight, which was the highest a British boxer had made at the time with the exception of David Haye's purse for fighting Klitschko.

If that's "doing it wrong" then I don't really know what to say.

If anything, Khan has far exceeded the earnings that someone with a chin like his should have gotten anywhere near. 

Also, what people aren't taking into account is the fact that Eddie Hearn wants the Brook fight because Eddie Hearn would stand to make a lot of money from it. This is the last fight on Khan's deal with Hearn, so it's the last chance for Ed to make some coin off him really.

Khan is sharp, he knows how to make money. Word is that rather than sign to face Brook, who he'd have to split the PPV sales in the UK with, he's signed to fight Crawford for $5 million flat, a share of the US PPV's, (which come in at $60 a throw, far more than they charge in the UK) and virtually the entire UK PPV sales of the fight.

So, what he'll do is make a shitload of cash from fighting Crawford, and he either wins and goes on to bigger and better things, or he loses and then negotiates for the Brook fight and still makes a lot of money.

Khan is so far from a "bad professional" that it's unreal. He's a fighter with a dodgy jaw and who wobbles whenever there's a light wind, yet he's amassed the kind of dough that most fighters could only dream of.

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The only way Khan is staying relevant is being the go to guy to take these title fights  which are out of his league. If he doesn't say yes there and then, they're gone 

Firstly moving up in weight to fight Canelo and now being the stand-in for the Crawford fight. His ability at welterweight is pretty ineffective, he doesnt have concussive power and his chin is trademarked sketchy.

He's dining out on his past world titles at lower weight divisions and his reputation for always being in exciting fights. Thats why he gets the call. 

It's no different from Khan fighting an old Barrera early in his career. Or Danny Garcia fighting old Erik Morales in his career. Both were over the hill and fighting in weight divisions too high for them but still got the fights because it was a name on their opponents boxing record.

Fighters can't fight the best of the best in their division, fight after fight. It will shorten their careers very fast.

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1 hour ago, Lion_of_the_Midlands said:

Khan is a bad professional. Scott Hall once said about wrestlers that if you gave them the choice of 500 dollars a week to be champion and win every match  or a thousand dollars a week to lose every match then 99% of them would take the 500 dollars. Its about making the most money, and Khan is doing it wrong. 

But you're comparing wrestling and boxing,  two different things.  In entertainment, making the most money is one of the main goals but that doesn't translate to sport.  Mayweather has said he'd rather have the zeroes in his bank account than the zero on his record, but for most sportsmen and women, being a world champion is the pinnacle.  Yes it's great to make as much as you can, but for elite athletes, testing yourself against the best in the world is the enticing thing, making as money as possible is secondary.

You simply cannot compare a form of entertainment, like wrestling, to a sport, like boxing.  Adam Woodyatt has been playing the same role for most of his life, but has never been in contention for an Oscar, is he a bad professional?  Was Martine McCutcheon being a bad professional when she gave up the role that made her the nations sweetheart for a while to pursue other project?  It's a daft thing to ask in a boxing thread but that's because it's daft to quote a wrestler as to what makes someone a bad professional because they are two completely different professions.

 

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46 minutes ago, David said:

 

So, what he'll do is make a shitload of cash from fighting Crawford, and he either wins and goes on to bigger and better things, or he loses and then negotiates for the Brook fight and still makes a lot of money.

 

good post Dave, but i still think he should flip it and do it the other way around.

I know the Crawford fight may go up in smoke but im certain if Khan beat Brook he would walk into another big fight in the States against one of the welterweight champions all of which are of similar stature, those guys will always need opponents because they all seem content on avoiding each other.

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46 minutes ago, Egg Shen said:

good post Dave, but i still think he should flip it and do it the other way around.

Ebb, he can't. He's got this opportunity because negotiations between Crawford and Danny Garcia fell through, and because the proposed backup fight with Luis Collazo was widely panned by fight fans in the US.

Khan has not only got a title shot here, he's being able to dictate a lot of terms that he wouldn't get otherwise. He's in the unique position that Crawford is kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place due to how the promotional landscape is over there at the moment.

Crawford is repped by TopRank and ESPN, who in the past have had a rocky relationship with Al Haymon. Well, it just so happens that three other major title holders in the welterweight division are Keith Thurman, Errol Spence, and Shawn Porter.

Guess who manages their affairs? That's right, Al Haymon. Could they get a fight done? Probably, but not in the timeframe they're looking at. It would take a lot of negotiations to make a fight between Crawford and one of the other champions a reality.

If the Khan fight wasn't happening, Bob Arum would have likely been left with Egidijus Kavaliauskas, Mike Alvarado or the aforementioned Luis Collazo as an opponent for Crawford if he wants to fight in April.

If Khan says no, then Arum and Crawford just have to suck it up and face one of those dudes, then see how it plays out afterwards. Crawford has made it clear that after fighting in April at Welter he either faces one of the other champions or he's moving up in weight. The door for Khan then closes.

This is basically Khan's only chance at this fight, and on top of that he's able to call the shots as he's the guy coming in at late-notice and flying to the US for the fight, which is why he's getting his $5 million flat (Garcia was offered $2 million beforehand), as well as a share of what will be a decent PPV revenue in the US, and the added bonus of TV rights from the UK, which will probably mean more PPV dough.

Eddie Hearn is all bent out of shape because he has to go into this fight sharing promotional duties (and thus revenue) with TopRank and Bob Arum, instead of having exclusive promotional rights over a bout between Brook and Khan.

To rub salt in the wounds, not only is he being denied the exclusive promotional rights over the fight, but if it does happen next he'll not actually be Khan's promoter, as the Crawford fight is the last on his deal with Hearn, so poor Eddie will have to renegotiate with Khan again after this fight, with Khan knowing full well that Ed wants the Brook fight to happen, or he'll need to deal with Khan's new promoter and split the revenue again!

Phew! That's as best as I can explain it, seriously. Khan has essentially played a blinder here, where he's got TopRank coming cap in hand with a lot of dough and TV rights, and then he'll likely get an even better deal from Hearn for the Brook fight than he would if he took it under his current deal.

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He's not done bad for himself I don't disagree, but like the other fighter you mentioned David Haye, he has lived the lifestyle. Haye made a shit load of money but ended up fighting Tony Bellew while on one leg, twice, for the money because he had burned through it all. The history of boxing is littered with fighters who spent all their money, and I would imagine Khan had some making up to do with his missus after he tweeted that she was banging Anthony Joshua. He needs the money as much as anyone. 

As for the PPV buy rate. The only fight Crawford has had on PPV drew 50 thousand buys and Bob Arum lost money on it. He did a big number on espn for his last fight but does it translate to PPV?

We are not going to agree on this, you have your final say and we will leave it there. 

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I've detailed the whole thing as best I can in the post above yours there mate, that's as much as I know about the situation.

As for Khan's finances, he's not a stupid man. He's invested ÂŁ5 million in his home town and created a shitload of jobs through it, and he's got investments all over the place. He's going to pocket a wedge from this Crawford fight for the reasons I mentioned above, he'll then squeeze some extra dough out of fast Eddie to re-sign him for the Brook fight, and then make some dough from that too.

Whichever way you slice it, he's played a blinder. Right place, right time, but also being smart enough to take advantage of it.

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3 hours ago, Keith Houchen said:

You simply cannot compare a form of entertainment, like wrestling, to a sport, like boxing.  Adam Woodyatt has been playing the same role for most of his life, but has never been in contention for an Oscar, is he a bad professional?  Was Martine McCutcheon being a bad professional when she gave up the role that made her the nations sweetheart for a while to pursue other project?  It's a daft thing to ask in a boxing thread but that's because it's daft to quote a wrestler as to what makes someone a bad professional because they are two completely different professions.

Eastenders has won 374 awards. Adam Woodyatt is a 5 time, 5 time, 5 time winner of Best Actor at the British Soap Awards. In his field he has had a career that few others can better, Cock Roache aside. 

Martine McCutcheon only went on to be one of the main characters in a film that made 250 millionish at the box office as well as a lot of tv parts and a singing career, an Olivier Award and lots of work on the West End stage. 

As for boxing and wrestling as different professions. Come on now Keith, boxing, wrestling, and MMA are all sold on the same basic premise. You are trying to get people to spend money on tickets, PPV,  or specialist networks based on people fighting, or pretending to fight. Mayweather is one of the best heels in boxing/wrestling/MMA and he understands the role perfectly. There is so much crossover between the 3 it's almost uncountable. Boxing has even gone the way of wrestling by devaluing the worth of the belts. Silver belts, regular champion, super champions, belts have never meant less. 

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Winston Bogarde is a good professional sportsman because he trousered the 40k a week for a few years while training with the youth team because he wouldn’t be transferred to another team where he would’ve actually played football. Ok then. 

Edited by Keith Houchen
Replaced “Reserves” with “Youth team”
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For a lot less money. The figure for premier league players who go bankrupt after they retire is massive. In monetary terms he did the right thing. 

There are plenty of players at clubs getting paid very good money and not playing. Richard Wright was at Manchester City for 4 years, and during that time signed 2 contract extensions. Never played a first team game. Made the most money he could, fair play to him. 

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Indeed fair play to him. He was a better professional than those who earned less and won more trophies. 

I guess I don’t take my guidance of what makes a good professional by the ultra paradigm of professionalism, Scott Hall. 

If you earn more money you’re a better businessman but that doesn’t make you a better sportsman. 

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