Wrestling Observer's "100 Greatest Wrestlers"

[Storm1:08]

Not much respect for the modern era though. That's a bit of a shame.

Hart, Michaels, Misawa, Kawada, Austin, Liger, Rock...who do you think are missing ?

Nathan Jones, A Train, Mark Henry.........do you want me to continue

[MrDanger]

A few placings that caught my eye:

6. Andre the Giant

That’s a ridiculous position, Andre was a short-term draw at best and only a mediocre worker in his physical prime. There’s absolutely no way he should be ahead of Giant Baba, who A) Was a far better worker B) A better long term draw and C) Ran a hugely successful promotion for over 25 years and was universally regarded as one of the greatest bookers of all-time.

14. Stan Hansen

I love Hansen but this is another baffling position, his star status in Japan pales in comparison to The Destroyer (No. 79!) and with the exception of his run with Sammartino in the 70’s, Hansen was never a particularly big draw in North America.Hansen is at least 30 places too high.

16. The Rock

This is probably the biggest joke in the entire list, how on earth is The Rock this high? He was only a big draw for 3 years; he’s only had a handful of truly great matches and his promo ability doesn’t match up to the likes of Ric Flair and Dusty Rhodes.To hit home this ridiculous placing, just look at Riki Choshu at no. 19.Here’s a guy who’s heel turn revolutionised the entire Puroresu industry by changing the way promoters viewed Native vs. Native matches, he and his Ishin Gundan crew revolutionised the All Japan in-ring style during the mid 80’s and let’s not forget the fact that he might just go down as one of the greatest bookers of the modern era due to his incredible run at the helm of New Japan during the 1990’s.I ask you, who deserves to be higher?

18. Bruiser Brody

I know Dave Meltzer helped compile this list but Brody’s placing really is a glaring example of favouritism. Yeah sure, Brody’s style may have influenced others and he was undoubtedly a huge draw throughout his time in Japan. Yet as an actual in-ring worker, Brody was somewhat limited and horribly repetitive, plus it’s impossible to ignore his backstage antics, which included repeatedly refusing to lose to Antonio Inoki, which could have killed off an already struggling New Japan.Brody wouldn’t make my top 50.

25. Bret Hart

Mediocre drawTransitional Champion at the high of his careerNever a consistently elite worker Far too high. Edited November 24, 2003 by MrDanger

[Lambeau Leap]

Whilst I realise that in ring work is not the only criteria by which this list is compilied, but how can Kenta Kobashi, one of the best in ring performers ever be left of this list?Can't argue with Flair at 1 though, he had great charasima, drew millions of dollars and was a great worker.

[Terje Rindal]

6. Andre the Giant

That

[Gossy]

No offense to any posters here, but please, if you disagree with someones placing on this (or any) list, please think ahead to have some reason for it, not just because they've beat your faves overall, I think it's probably one of the best lists I've seen, mainly because I agree with the number one pick Also, I may be in the minority but I have no problem with Andre's number, although admittedly his career was helped by the McMahons when decided to move him from territory to terrtiroy before people got sick of him, he was always over with the fans and even when he was virtually immobile in '87 he still was the guy for Hogan to go over, because there weren't probably all that many people bigger (I don't mean size wise, popularity) than Andre in US wrestling at that time.But hey, I've always liked Andre, so I may be a bit biased, at least I admit it!

[Guest TheMontyMan]

How in the hell did Mil Mascaras beat Bret hart,hbk and freddie blassie? 

Because the list was made by people who had actually seen his work, rather than going by Mick Foley's book.

That was quality. So glad I decided to give this thread a second look.

[wigmonkey]

I broughgt the book in the U.S. proberly also avaible over here via Amazon, pretty good read!

[bobbins]

6. Andre the Giant

There’s absolutely no way he should be ahead of Giant Baba, who A) Was a far better worker.

Yes

B) A better long term draw

For his home promotion, yes, but Andre was a far bigger draw worldwide than Baba. Andre guaranteed sellouts in every territory throughout North America, Mexico, Japan and Puerto Rico. Comparing Baba's drawing power to Andre's is ridiculous.

C) Ran a hugely successful promotion for over 25 years

Didn't spot Sam Muchnick on this list....

and was universally regarded as one of the greatest bookers of all-time.

....or Bill Watts.

16. The Rock

This is probably the biggest joke in the entire list, how on earth is The Rock this high? He was only a big draw for 3 years; he’s only had a handful of truly great matches and his promo ability doesn’t match up to the likes of Ric Flair and Dusty Rhodes.

Like it or not, few people in wrestling history have drawn more money than The Rock.

18. Bruiser Brody

I know Dave Meltzer helped compile this list but Brody’s placing really is a glaring example of favouritism.

Your praise of Choshu in terms of revolutionising puroresu could equally be applied to Brody. In fact, more so.

25. Bret Hart

Never a consistently elite worker

I wouldn't have him this high, but I think "Consistently elite worker" describes Bret to a tee.

[Lucha fan]

Good to see some Lucha wrestlers ranked Highly but where was Negro Casas,Dr Wagner Snr and Dr Wagner Jnr?. I heard a story about Mil Mascaras that a fan wanted him to sign one of his posters but when Mil found out it wasnt one of his official posters he took it from the fan and tore it up .

[Porn Baron]

Good to see some Lucha wrestlers ranked Highly but where was Negro Casas,Dr Wagner Snr and Dr Wagner Jnr?. I heard a story about Mil Mascaras that a fan wanted him to sign one of his posters but when Mil found out it wasnt one of his official posters he took it from the fan and tore it up .

Mil Macasras was ahuge draw in Mexico and on the west coast for years.my grumble is how come ~Tiger Mask sayama is some much higher then Dynamite Kid. they became legends together and after Sayama left New Japan his career went south. Andre the Gaint is one of the greats of wrestling. and while not agreat worker made huge money for everyone he worked for.Stan Hansen while popular in Japan surely Fred Blassie and the Destroyer were bigger stars in japan

[MrDanger]

I agree about your first point, at least compared to some of hte heavyweights in the drawing department (Inoki, Hogan, Sammartino, Baba, Austin etc), but I don't think it's fair to call him a transitional champ. Sure, he was the man between the successful stints of Hogan and Austin, but he did have the belt on and off for a period of five years, most of them which he drew at least respectfully.

While he held the World Title on-off for a fair portion of the 90’s, I thought it was fairly clear that Bret was simply keeping the belt warm for Vince’s next “megastar”, whether it be Yokozuna, Diesel or Shawn Michaels. Of course Bret was probably a better draw than all three but I still think Bret’s spells on top were always transitional spells for Vince’s next golden boy.

For his home promotion, yes, but Andre was a far bigger draw worldwide than Baba. Andre guaranteed sellouts in every territory throughout North America, Mexico, Japan and Puerto Rico. Comparing Baba's drawing power to Andre's is ridiculous.

Baba drew plenty of money in Puerto Rico, Los Angeles, Texas and Detroit.Baba could have easily been one of the top foreign stars in the US if he didn’t have such huge commitments back in Japan.Besides, Baba was and still is a genuine household name in Japan, could the same be said of Andre in the US? The sum total of Andre's recent fame in the US is a throw-away line on the Simpsons and a biography that aired on some obscure US TV channel.

Didn't spot Sam Muchnick on this list....

That’s because Muchnick was simply a promoter.I don’t know the exact criteria of the list but surely a wrestler’s all-round contribution to the business has to be considered? For example, it would be crazy to ignore Jaguar Yokota or Ultimo Dragon’s trainee records when judging their candidacy for the list. The fact that Jesse Ventura made the list at all seems to point that outside factors were considered too.

Like it or not, few people in wrestling history have drawn more money than The Rock.

That’s ridiculous, The Rock was a big draw for three years (Summer 98-Spring 01), now his drawing ability is patchy at best. I could name numerous wrestlers with better short term drawing ability (Maeda, Austin, Onita, Takada etc), never mind the countless wrestlers with better long-term records over the course of a career (Flair, Inoki, Bruno, Dusty, Baba etc).

Your praise of Choshu in terms of revolutionising puroresu could equally be applied to Brody. In fact, more so.

Huh?Please explain that to me, how did Brody revolutionise the structure of Puro? How did he evolve the in-ring style of All Japan? How did he mastermind the elevation of several fresh megastars?

I wouldn't have him this high, but I think "Consistently elite worker" describes Bret to a tee

I think “consistently good worker” fits Bret better. With the possible exception of 1997, I can’t think of a single year where I’d place Bret in the top 5 workers in the world. Edited November 27, 2003 by MrDanger

[wilmotd]

I thought Bret Hart was one of the lowest ranked wrestlers on there, I'd of put him #1 but that's me. I don't think he was a transitional champion I think if fans had the choice of seeing 1 past superstar wrestle it'd be Hart without a shadow of a doubt. Of course he didn't draw as big while he was champ his past now reprsents a golden era and fans respect him more then any other wrestler. If you can think of over 5 wrestlers that drew more then Bret in the WWF you'd be strugglig...1) Hogan2) Austin3) Rock (can argue that one)4) Andre The Giantanyone else got any other ideas?Also the name of the game is wrestling and name 1 wrestler who WRESTLED better then Hart over his WWF career?

[Burchill's Buddy]

The list was based on both box office drawing power, chriasma and wrestling ability.

ok so does that mean they think Andre has Charisma and wrestling ability? no? ok so he is 6th.....why? he wasnt THAT big of a draw to cancel out the other 2 factors surely?

[edgecrusher]

I third the guy who mentioned Kobashi and Toyota. Why aren't they on there and Rowdy frickin' Roddy Piper is? Maybe he's better with the stick, but he was never a better wrestler, certainly wasn't as charismatic, and I sincerely doubt he was a bigger draw. Can ANYONE justify or explain this little quandry? -in my pants

[JNLister]

The list was based on both box office drawing power, chriasma and wrestling ability.

ok so does that mean they think Andre has Charisma and wrestling ability? no? ok so he is 6th.....why? he wasnt THAT big of a draw to cancel out the other 2 factors surely?

Andre the Giant didn't have charisma?Apologies to all sufferers of downs syndrome or cerebral palsy, but you spazzy mong.