Midnight Zeus Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 There is a huge difference between hating Shawn Michaels and taking offence when someone claims him to be the "greatest wrestler ever~!!!!1111111 masterclass!" when there are 50 better wrestlers It's this kind of 'My opinion is fact' attitude that gets people's backs up.If I think Shawn Michaels has had better matches than anyone else and can give reasons why, which I and many others, have done time and time again - why is us calling him the best ever so wrong?I'd have thought common sense would have kicked in at some point and a little though bubble would have appeared and in it would be:"I see from what these people are saying that they don't look for the same things in a wrestling match that I do and that the things that I hold up as the important parts of a match are in fact to different to what I think. That is why they think Shawn Michaels is the best, and I can understand that based on what they like to see in a match as that's exactly what Shawn does. I personally like to see different things in a match, I think I'll write a post and say why I think Bret Hart is better and I'll outline what I like to see in a match so they can understand why I like Bret better."Alas you just swear like a trucker and revert back to the, 'my opinion is fact' mode - shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members MoChatra Posted October 13, 2003 Paid Members Share Posted October 13, 2003 It's really easy to dismiss the opinions of me or Ray as being "negative". That way you don't have to argue them. What is there to argue, though? We've laid out our reasons for liking the match, you've laid out yours for thinking it's overrated. What's more to say? There's no right or wrong, it's all about opinions. It just so happens that nearly every opinion you have about wrestling happens to be negative, which makes me wonder why you even bother following the sport anymore, and what annoys people who choose to watch wrestling to be entertained rather than to pick holes in matches like you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fadda Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Is Bionic Redneck a fan of wrestling? Yes. End of argument. So what if he 'picks holes'.The hierarchy of fans bullshit is ridiculous, as are the accusations of being 'smart'. Firstly, only in wrestling is it an insult to be smart apparently (just enjoy it!!!11), and secondly, there's no smart in wrestling because it's men in spandex pretending to fight. If you're gonna follow something as stupid as wrestling, no harm in being discerning. Some analyze, some don't...don't be arrogant enough to think that you're the 'right' kind of fan when you're all sitting there reading your Observers. The people who label others do so ONLY because they don't agree with their opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BionicRedneck Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 It's this kind of 'My opinion is fact' attitude that gets people's backs up.Who doesn't give their opinion as fact? Should every post I make have a disclaimer on the bottom saying "Warning: The above was my opinion and shouldn't be misinterpreted as fact"? C'mon. It just so happens that nearly every opinion you have about wrestling happens to be negative,More bullshit. Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AndyPandy Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 (edited) Let us all stop whinging. I'll say that Shawn Michaels reached an incredible amount of respect from me whislt watching that match.I still get emotional when Lawler shouts out "Incoming, Incoming". JR and crew were also super in the match. To this day, I have never been transfixed at 2:50am more than watching that and Bret vs Austin.Amazing peformer. Edited October 13, 2003 by AndyPandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terje Rindal Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Ray,you still haven't given me reasons as SSS behind your thinking on the Benoit/Angle match from the Rumble. That is quite possibly the most ironic thing I've ever read on the UKFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Edwards Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 The whole problem with Mo's negativity by comparing something to something argument is that BR has to be positive about a match to critisize HIAC for not being as good at itWhy are you being so negative about Hart/Austin Mo, why can't you just enjoy thatI realise I'm playing devils advocate here but the whole argument is bullshit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbins Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 As you say, it really was awesome, and the reasons BR gave for claiming it wasn't a great match are really flimsy and about as convincing as a Russo storyline. Didn't Russo write the storyline we're discussing? I'm not sure wrestling tries to be art. Wrestling is wrestling.I think the match is brilliantly laid out. Yeah, the cage is meant to keep everyone out and the competitors in, but the way they get around that is excellent and extremely dramatic storytelling. As for the finish, come on, it's fucking perfect.Whilst I'll defend BR's and Ray's right to be as negative as all hell, in this case I believe their criticism to be unfounded. Yes.Oh and Fadda rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgecrusher Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 I'll answer truthfully. Shawn is not one of the best to step into the ring.Okay, I'll answer truthfully. Shawn is one of the best to step into the ring. -in my pantsThis argument is about an inch from developing into a flame war, BR, and its your fault. Stop being so fucking aggressive. You're basically saying that no-one's opinion in this thread counts unless they agree with you. There've been plenty of good arguments as to why HIAC is a good match, and some against. You haven't even given an inch. All you're willing to say is that its OK, and if anyone dares to say more than that you decry them as wrong. -with a loo brushwhen there are 50 better wrestlers and just because they are a mark for him/Meltzer said soIN YOUR OPINION. I mean, how insulting is that? Its that snobbish attitude that pisses people off. Why can't we think that Shawn's one of if not THE best, if we, having watched Kobashi, having watched Misawa, having watched Hart and Austin and all the rest, decide, on our own, that he's the best? Where the fuck does Meltzer come into it? Apparently, you've ignored the various arguments that suggest that Bret isn't better than Shawn Michaels, just like you accuse (Mo?) of. -in my pantsYeah, everyone states their opinion as fact. Not everyone states it as fact and then practically starts flaming when someone disagrees. Not necessarily saying you do, but plenty of other people do. That's where the difference comes in. And you do come across as overly negative at times. As for people spouting cliches, has it ever occurred to you that they have a point? Smarks can be gut-wrenchingly annoying at times. A lot of them really SHOULD lighten up and remind themselves that they're supposed to be enjoying themselves when they watch a match. Well, maybe I should say a lot of US should lighten up. -with a loo brushJust chill out a bit, man. And don't be such a hypocrite. You've accused someone of ignoring the arguments as to why Bret's better than Shawn. You've ignored those for the opposite case. No doubt you've dismissed them and decided that they weren't very good arguments, too. Probably much like those in the other camp have. You like Shawn, lots of people love him, and for good reason. Get used to it. -in my pants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BionicRedneck Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 I'll answer truthfully. Shawn is not one of the best to step into the ring.Okay, I'll answer truthfully. Shawn is one of the best to step into the ring. -in my pantsThis argument is about an inch from developing into a flame war, BR, and its your fault. Stop being so fucking aggressive. I thought that was great. There was no longer any agression, any flaming or any argument, then you came out with that. Good one. when there are 50 better wrestlers and just because they are a mark for him/Meltzer said soIN YOUR OPINION. I mean, how insulting is that? Its that snobbish attitude that pisses people off.Grrrr.....I'll repeat myself: "Who doesn't give their opinion as fact? Should every post I make have a disclaimer on the bottom saying "Warning: The above was my opinion and shouldn't be misinterpreted as fact"? C'mon. "Yeah, everyone states their opinion as fact.Then what the fuck was the point in calling it snobish?!I am really having a hard time working some of this out, Edgecrusher. We are basically going backwards and you start being aggressive and blaming me for it.Basically all you are saying is that people have different opinions on this and that has been established a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgecrusher Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 OK, so there was some wire-crossage, but you weren't exactly being polite to lower occipital protuberrance, were you? -with a loo brushThe snobbishness is assuming that people think Shawn is best because Meltzer said so. If you have to actually distort the very simple words I used to get my point across then you ought to simply stop arguing. The 'you only like so-and-so because so-and-so says he's great' argument has been used many times to beat down people who side with Shawn over these mythical better workers who are really just in the same league. -in my pantsNow that I've clarified a couple of things, are we clear? -with a loo brushLike Mo said, though, there really isn't anything left to discuss. There's been a few rather eloquent and valid explanations for why Shawn Vs Taker was superb. There's been some less eloquent explanations for why it wasn't. Ultimately we're in a clash of opinions that probably aren't going to change. Where exactly do you want this discussion to go? Where CAN it go? -in my pants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheMontyMan Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 (edited) MoChatra called BR's Mum a Fuck Off. BR declared that "I know you are but what am I". To which Mo replied "I know you are but what am I". BR came right back though with "I know you are but what am I". Then Mo stunned the gathered crowd with his dry witty quip "Takes one to no one". At this point BR ran to the teacher to tell.Gangrel was unavailable for comment. Edited October 13, 2003 by TheMontyMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BionicRedneck Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 MoChatra called BR's Mum a Fuck Off. BR declared that "I know you are but what am I". To which Mo replied "I know you are but what am I". BR came right back though with "I know you are but what am I". Then Mo stunned the gathered crowd with his dry witty quip "Takes one to no one". At this point BR ran to the teacher to tell.Gangrel was unavailable for comment. Was this supposed to be funny? Seriously, I'd like to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgecrusher Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 I second your query. -with a loo brush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheMontyMan Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 MoChatra called BR's Mum a Fuck Off. BR declared that "I know you are but what am I". To which Mo replied "I know you are but what am I". BR came right back though with "I know you are but what am I". Then Mo stunned the gathered crowd with his dry witty quip "Takes one to no one". At this point BR ran to the teacher to tell.Gangrel was unavailable for comment.Was this supposed to be funny? Seriously, I'd like to know. Ahhh.... teen angst.Those hormones getting to you? Hair in new places? Confused about that girl you like?In the words of RVD's piss poor WWE writing staff..."Take a chill-pill." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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