The General Politics Thread v2.0 (AKA the "Labour are Cunts" thread)

[SuperBacon]

16 minutes ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

Still, the comments are fun..

Define "fun"

[d-d-d-dAz]

1 minute ago, SuperBacon said:

Define "fun"

A lot of weirdos ranting about genders and John Prescott, from memory.

Social media comments are always just an utter, utter dumpster fire. 

[Mr_Danger]

28 minutes ago, SuperBacon said:

Define "fun"

Was probably you tbf.

[Carbomb]

13 hours ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

Social media comments are always just an utter, utter dumpster fire. 

Fixed.

I have one golden rule when it comes to the internet: never read the comments. 

[TheScarlettChad]

Is it not possible they're just being friendly because theyr'e mates?

[Keith Houchen]

From two years ago. 

[d-d-d-dAz]

1 hour ago, TheScarlettChad said:

Is it not possible they're just being friendly because theyr'e mates?

Well I think it’s probably exactly that, but the general belief today seems to be that you can’t be mates across the aisle.

When I was studying politics, once upon a billion years ago, I used to love hearing stories of odd couple friendships in parliament. They’d be career enders these days.

I think there’s probably a wonderful sociological thesis somewhere about the difference perceptions of peoples political persuasions, and how possible it is to maintain friendships and relationships with people with different views.

I guess when politics was predominantly fought on a class basis, and about how to manage an economy, it was maybe easier?
 

I know personally, an economic conservative but socially liberal person is easier to make a connection with, whereas a social conservative with wonky views on race or sexuality or gender I really struggle to abide. The identity era in politics has maybe made everything a bit more heated.

Edited December 4, 2023 by d-d-d-dAz

[RedRooster]

16 minutes ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

When I was studying politics, once upon a billion years ago, I used to love hearing stories of odd couple friendships in parliament. They’d be career enders these days.

I'd like to think that isn't true, at least not completely. If - for example - a left winger was best pals with a noted racist, that might be different, of course. 

In Scotland, former Scottish Labour leader (and former I'm a Celebrity contestant) Kezia Dugdale is married to the SNP's Jenny Gilruth. I know that Alex Salmond is pals with David Davis, and Anas Sarwar (current Scottish Labour leader) and Nicola Sturgeon have very much indicated that they're pals while speaking at Holyrood. 

I can't imagine Raynor being pals with JHB - assuming they are - would be damaging in any way to her, outside of with the most tribal of tribal. 

I'm a bit like you, in that I find stories of cross-party friendships really interesting. It's bizarre to think of certain politicians interacting socially, and I don't really know why - I mean, why wouldn't they? Parliament would be an awful place to work if members of opposing parties actively avoided one another. 

[Keith Houchen]

39 minutes ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

They’d be career enders these days.

Jess Phillips is notably pally with Rees Mogg. Both have prominent careers. 
 

Parliamentarians and journalists live in the same world. I’ve mentioned it before but once on a political discussion show, Iain Dale was verbally sparring with someone and then Ash Sarkar said how the pair of them were actually good mates and how the whole commentator class get wheeled out for a faux bunfight for the cameras before all attending the same cocktail parties. Dale then quipped “I don’t see you at these parties, Ash” and everyone guffawed. Ash thanked him for proving her point about how it’s all a big club and super performative. 
 

At the time of the coalition, JHB was on HIGNFY with Chris Addison. She started slagging Nick Clegg and he shot back saying how dare he try and do the best for his party by being part of government. He was pretty scathing towards her and she seemed genuinely taken aback, saying how he was nice to her in the green room. 

[Loki]

I don’t think it is true - MPs are still friends with MPs from other parties.  They all work long hours in the same building, frequent the same bars, why wouldn’t they?

 It’s the public, or the online politically active public, that now seem to think you can’t be friends with people who have a different opinion from you - and so politicians tend to keep quiet about it for fear it will be posted on internet forums and mocked (ahem).

 I’d say the majority of my closest friends are Conservative voters - some even Tory politicians as I’ve mentioned.  I’d be a poorer man (in terms of a happy life) if I only had friends in a narrow ideological band, in my opinion.

Going back to the original post what struck me more than the fact that two people were friends, was how thirsty/misogynistic all the comments under it were.  It seems internet commentators are happy to talk about fucking women they profess to hate.  Maybe their dicks are Tories?

 

[d-d-d-dAz]

2 minutes ago, Loki said:

 It’s the public, or the online politically active public, that now seem to think you can’t be friends with people who have a different opinion from you - and so politicians tend to keep quiet about it for fear it will be posted on internet forums and mocked (ahem).

 

 

Yeah, this was what I was getting at I think… or fumbling for… ‘internet people’ seem to think you shouldn’t be friends with people with different views, which in turn means it’s not reported or it’s seen as being a ‘bad’ thing.

[Carbomb]

I would venture to argue that the reason why it's become so difficult now is because of how extreme the right has gone. This isn't a "both sides" thing - the left, in whatever shape, haven't been in power for a long time, and the reign of the right has led to deaths and suffering, which is something that most people would get quite heated about, especially when you hear right-wingers and jingoes trying to defend things like Windrush and Grenfell, or blaming the poor for the adversity they experience.

In previous eras, it might have been easier, because, even if you didn't agree with someone, it wasn't having that kind of material effect. Also, you could still entertain the idea that, even if you thought someone's ideas were misguided, they might be operating from a position of good faith, genuinely holding their beliefs to be an honest appraisal of what would be best for people.

The era we're living in, there's a very strong impression, indicated by the increasingly abhorrent governments being voted in, that a lot of the right are now basing their choices on "owning the libs", so to speak, and on targeting their resentment for their deprivation at whomever what currently-prominent, snake oil-peddling demagogue is telling them to, as has always happened in times of economic hardship.

EDIT: Basically, to try to make this a bit more succinct: whom people vote for gives you an idea of their mindset. Voting for someone like BJ or Rees-Mogg or Dorries or Braverman or Truss gives a very different impression to voting for someone like Kenneth Clarke or Rory Stewart or Michael Heseltine. To be clear, I do not agree with any of them, but the fact that you can engage in some form of intelligent debate with the latter suggests you can also engage with them on a human level a lot more easily.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Carbomb

[Keith Houchen]

Personally, I think politics is exactly the thing you should fall out with friends over if they’re supportive of things you’re fundamentally opposed to. 
 

Loki is a real life mate of mine and we have political differences over a number of things, but fundamentally we both want a fairer caring world. 

[Devon Malcolm]

It's a lot easier for some people to be friends with those of differering political beliefs depending on their upbringing, background and current financial, social and societal position. 

[Carbomb]

2 minutes ago, Devon Malcolm said:

It's a lot easier for some people to be friends with those of differering political beliefs depending on their upbringing, background and current financial, social and societal position. 

Forgot to mention this too. There's a lot of lambasting of identity politics like it's a bad thing, and it's usually from people historically not affected by them.

Identity politics arose in response to a problem. There seem to be a lot of people more bothered about the response than the problem itself.