UFC 278: Usman vs Edwards 2 - Aug 20 🇺🇸

[Egg Shen]

Yeah, I usually like Din Thomas' input, but I thought the 'broken' stuff was a little harsh. I could see his point, but I thought he put it across too bluntly.

I'd pick Usman in a rematch, but the altitude difference could make it a completely different fight. Leon was dealing with Usman as well as fighting the elements, the second fight could have a different look.

[wandshogun09]

5 hours ago, Egg Shen said:

I'd pick Usman in a rematch, but the altitude difference could make it a completely different fight. Leon was dealing with Usman as well as fighting the elements, the second fight could have a different look.

This is true but it’s the same in reverse. Everyone was battling against the altitude. I’d favour Usman in the rubber match as well and he sounds like he’s taking the loss well and is really motivated to get back and win the trilogy. It’s weird though because looking at how the fight was playing out before the KO, you almost have to give Usman the advantage next time, but now with the way it ended, fuck knows? Usman’s gonna be coming off his first knockout loss, and it was a bad one, plus at 35 you wonder how long he’s got left at the top of his game. There’s been reports of his knees being in a bad way for a while now and I remember him hinting at not fighting much longer fairly recently, think it was in the run up to the Covington rematch last year. As in control as he looked before that kick landed, shit like that can change a fighter physically and/or mentally. And on the other side, Leon is gonna be absolutely flying coming off this win. You have to think it’s gonna be huge for his confidence and self belief next time. It’s gonna be an interesting one.

There’s already been a fair bit of talk about doing the third fight in London. Dana even mentioned Wembley after the show on Saturday but I can’t see it myself just because Dana’s always been terrified of doing outdoor shows anywhere, doing one in the UK with our weather seems like a non starter. It’ll probably end up at the O2 again. But myself, if it’s gonna be in the UK and not at Wembley, I think it should be Birmingham that gets it. Obviously I’m biased but they haven’t been here since 2011, for fuck’s sake! If Leon winning the title and knocking out Kamaru Usman of all people isn’t enough to bring the Octagon back to Brum then we’ll probably never get a UFC card again. Usman’s already said he’s up for having the third fight in the UK as well, everyone seems to be on the same page. So watch it end up in Vegas now. 

Saw this earlier as well.

 

[Egg Shen]

this is Monday morning quarterback stuff, but does that win and considering who it was against, make Leon Edwards the UK's best ever MMA fighter?

[Zebra Kid Mark]

15 minutes ago, Egg Shen said:

this is Monday morning quarterback stuff, but does that win and considering who it was against, make Leon Edwards the UK's best ever MMA fighter?

I think it does. He isn't as big of a star as Bisping or a pioneer like him, but he is the best ever MMA fighter that has come out of the UK in my opinion. 

Aspinall and Arnold Allen could overtake him but right now he is the best.

[wandshogun09]

It was definitely the best single win and achievement by a UK fighter for me. So on that basis alone he’s got to be near the top of the list, if not number one on it. 

[Cousin Jim Bob]

I love Bisping but he always felt like he would fall short of greatness. He would get on the cusp of a title fight then seemingly lose to another contender. Over and over for years. 

 

Edwards on the other hand is on a 10 fight win streak in a nightmare division (not taking into account that NC, he was winning). He had to grind and claw his way to just getting a title shot. Plus just beat a hall of famer to win the belt. 

 

Bit of a hot take but there is an argument to be made Leon is one of the most underrated fighters in UFC history and that Bisping might be one of the most overrated.

Edited August 23, 2022 by Cousin Jim Bob

[Zebra Kid Mark]

2 hours ago, Cousin Jim Bob said:

 

Bisping might be one of the most overrated.

That's a bit harsh, Bisping isn't even the most overrated fighter to come out of the North of England. That honour goes to Darren Till.

[WeeAl]

It'll be interesting to see how this loss affects Usman. He was well on his way to a 49-46 win on all the scorecards, until Leon sent him to hell in that last minute. How that physically changes him and what way it plays with his mental preparation for the re-match will be a matter of much debate in the meantime. 

One thing Wand mentioned above though is age. Usman is 35 now, possibly 36 when they'll fight again. GSP walked away from WW in 2013 at 32 I believe it was. Lawler was between 31 and 33 when he was on his return run at the top of the division. Woodley was 36 the last time we saw him resemble a top fighter against Darren Till.

It's probably fair to say Usman has no more development left in him, and that it comes down to how long he holds on to his current abilities. Edwards may not be at his best yet. Despite the fight being not all that interesting as it played out, until the crazy ending, it leaves a lot of doubt about what the outcome of the re-match could be. Despite thinking Usman has/had more tools to win, picking him at the weekend, and feeling justified in that with how it played out despite the fact he lost - I'm totally unsure how a third fight will go considering the career point Usman finds himself in now. 

The Aldo fight actually made me angry. Not because of Merab's gameplan, he did exactly what he needed to. What pissed me off watching it unfold was that after round 1, we could see this was Aldo Vs Volk all over again. So I'm sitting there watching rounds 2 and 3 and thinking how Aldo should have never been in this fight in the first place. He should have been fighting Sterling for the belt, somewhere at sea level, and TJ could have fought Merab as some extra penance. Instead down the drain goes the story of seeing Jose fight for a title again one last time, due to poor match making decisions as they've lost a contender with Merab being very unlikely to fight Aljo, even if in the position to be offered the fight. Sheer stupidity. 

On the topic of poor match making decisions, and I know it's another show, but Tony Ferguson Vs Li Jingliang? Deary me. 

[Cousin Jim Bob]

1 hour ago, Zebra Kid Mark said:

That's a bit harsh, Bisping isn't even the most overrated fighter to come out of the North of England. That honour goes to Darren Till.

 

If Nottingham is the North. Then Dan Hardy must win that.

 

Till beat Wonderboy, Gasetelum and Cerrone. Hardy somehow got a title shot at GSP from beating bloody Marcus Davis and Mike Swick.

 

Hardy and Bisping getting title shots so easy, probably strengthens Edwards case for being our number 1 tbh.

Edited August 23, 2022 by Cousin Jim Bob

[Egg Shen]

Bisping got his shot on late notice due to injury so that's a different case.

Hardy was abit ahead of his time. He was marketing himself with a bit of a gimmick of sorts before many people did, it made him standout in a division which GSP was clearing out, they just capitalised on Hardy's popularity, he sold the shit out of that fight too.

[Cousin Jim Bob]

31 minutes ago, Egg Shen said:

Bisping got his shot on late notice due to injury so that's a different case.

Hardy was abit ahead of his time. He was marketing himself with a bit of a gimmick of sorts before many people did, it made him standout in a division which GSP was clearing out, they just capitalised on Hardy's popularity, he sold the shit out of that fight too.

 Indeed both shots are rather fortuitous than Edwards case of winning a ton of fights in a row. 

 

Which is basically the right way to go about it. And strengthens his case of being our number 1.

Edited August 24, 2022 by Cousin Jim Bob

[Egg Shen]

Edwards definitely did it the hard way.

Is Edwards title win at the end of the longest win streak in UFC history? He won the belt on fight 10 of the streak.

I don't think anyone comes close off the top of my head?

[Cousin Jim Bob]

Its a great Fuck you to Dana. 

Who you suspect never wanted to give him that rematch. I'd imagine he is seeing the pound signs of a potential Wembley Stadium event with the UK fighters now though.

[Egg Shen]

6 hours ago, Egg Shen said:

 

Is Edwards title win at the end of the longest win streak in UFC history? He won the belt on fight 10 of the streak.

I don't think anyone comes close off the top of my head?

Looking it up this morning, Usman also won the title on fight 10 of his streak.

Edited August 24, 2022 by Egg Shen

[Carbomb]

12 hours ago, WeeAl said:

It'll be interesting to see how this loss affects Usman. He was well on his way to a 49-46 win on all the scorecards, until Leon sent him to hell in that last minute. How that physically changes him and what way it plays with his mental preparation for the re-match will be a matter of much debate in the meantime. 

Possibly. I don't think there'll be as much doubt as there would be for an undefeated prospect, though - Usman's lost once before, and he went on a long undefeated streak following it, so he's obviously got the mental fortitude, and the experience of losing.

12 hours ago, WeeAl said:

One thing Wand mentioned above though is age. Usman is 35 now, possibly 36 when they'll fight again. GSP walked away from WW in 2013 at 32 I believe it was. Lawler was between 31 and 33 when he was on his return run at the top of the division. Woodley was 36 the last time we saw him resemble a top fighter against Darren Till.

It's probably fair to say Usman has no more development left in him, and that it comes down to how long he holds on to his current abilities. Edwards may not be at his best yet. Despite the fight being not all that interesting as it played out, until the crazy ending, it leaves a lot of doubt about what the outcome of the re-match could be. Despite thinking Usman has/had more tools to win, picking him at the weekend, and feeling justified in that with how it played out despite the fact he lost - I'm totally unsure how a third fight will go considering the career point Usman finds himself in now. 

He has no more physical development left, sure, but one thing that gets frequently brought up is how older fighters evolve in terms of mental approach, tactics, and strategy, to compensate for them losing a step here and there against younger fighters. Usman must be a fairly canny veteran by now - I wouldn't be surprised if he adapted his game even at this stage. We've (sort of) seen it with Andrei Arlovski - whilst he's not going to be winning any titles, he's still winning matches at 43, long past the point anyone expected him to, because he changed things up.

10 hours ago, Egg Shen said:

Edwards definitely did it the hard way.

Is Edwards title win at the end of the longest win streak in UFC history? He won the belt on fight 10 of the streak.

I don't think anyone comes close off the top of my head?

Do you mean title defences only? Because DJ was on a 13-fight streak when Cejudo got him. And 14 fights undefeated.

EDIT: Bloody hell, how could I forget Jon Jones? 17-fight undefeated streak, 13 wins before the NC with Cormier. Also, Nunes was on a 12-win streak before the loss to Pena.

Edited August 24, 2022 by Carbomb