UFC 273: Volkanovski vs Zombie - Apr 9 🇺🇸

[wandshogun09]

Absolutely double standards. I found Woodley hard to like for most of his career, to be fair. I warmed to him a little bit later when he started doing the analyst stuff and seemed to be enjoying himself more. But for a while, it seemed like every time I saw him interviewed he was just wall to wall negativity. I think we forget sometimes though, that a lot of the interviews we see with these guys come at bad times, during fight week when they’re cutting weight, grumpy and stressed etc. I don’t know if I just got used to him or if he got better in front of the camera but I quite liked him around the time of the Till fight onwards. 

But the Aljo stuff baffles me. I don’t really see any reason why the hate started in the first place. I get that he plays up to some of it now and eggs it on (not the racial abuse, obviously, the general trolling the trolls) but the whole thing with how the backlash started was so odd to me. Like we’ve all said, the way that first Yan fight ended was 100% on Yan. Yet Sterling comes out of it getting called a pussy (and worse) and Yan gets cheered?

It just seems like these fans were waiting for an excuse to turn on him. We’ve kind of seen it before as well, although it was to a lesser extent than this Sterling stuff. I noticed a while back that fans seem quicker to turn on black fighters for minor reasons. Like they had a boring fight or something. I remember fans giving Adesanya shit after the Yoel Romero snoozer, even though he’d just knocked out Whittaker before that and had the FOTY with Gastelum before that. I remember Usman copping a load of unwarranted shite for being ‘boring’ after the first Masvidal fight, even though he was coming off that corker off a first fight with Covington. And it’s mostly forgotten now but it felt like the whole MMA world turned on Francis Ngannou after he had those back-to-back losses to Stipe and Lewis. And it wasn’t just calling them boring and or overrated etc. I remember seeing quite a lot of stuff about Usman being unlikeable and Ngannou ‘believing his own hype’. 

Not saying white fighters wouldn’t get any criticism for losses and performances like this but I don’t think it’d have been quite as quick or obvious a turn against them. Adesanya, Usman and Ngannou seem fairly popular now but it’s hard to slag them when they’re winning so decisively. Watch when one of them loses. There’s always gonna be some piss taking when a popular fighter gets beat but it just seems to be a different tone from some sections of the MMA fanbase when it’s a black fighter and it’s fucking rancid.

You also see it when the likes of McGregor, Pimblett, Covington, and even that little arse wipe Cody Durden recently, say or tweet dodgy inflammatory or outright racist shit. There’s always people rightly shitting on them for it but then I there’s always a vocal and depressingly large bunch of cretins rushing to defend the comments under the guise of free speech or ‘he’s just working a gimmick bro’ bollocks, which are paper thin defences.

Even now in the fallout of this Sterling fight, I’m seeing more positive stuff towards him which is good. But before Saturday I barely saw one tweet saying anything even remotely positive about him. It’s been 11 months of slagging him off since the first fight and it’s only now he’s won that there’s even a slight hint of anyone giving him a bit of his due.

This must kill the MMA KKK crew. 

Edited April 14, 2022 by wandshogun09

[David]

1 hour ago, Carbomb said:

I know Yan isn't 100% white, but he has passing privilege in this regard.

And more importantly, he's a complete fucking knob while Sterling seems like an engaging, likeable guy. 

I don't understand for the life of me why the UFC, and Dana White in particular, choose to bury guys like Sterling and Woodley when they're seemingly so fucking marketable. Stick Sterling on a TV talk show, an ESPN or a FOX Sports and he completely contradicts the mainstream idea of what a UFC fighter is.

His interview with Ariel after the fight is worth watching for those who haven't seen it:

 

[Zebra Kid Mark]

I don't buy into the MMA fans are racist argument at all. How can you explain that the biggest star on the show with the best biggest crowd reaction was Muslim. Wouldn't all the racists hate him?

Wouldn't all the racists hate Derrick Lewis? The man is universally loved by everyone and even when he loses or has a boring fight he doesn't get any hate. I don't like picking and choosing who and when something is racist in order to fit their narrative.

Some people are just polarising no matter the colour of the skin. McGreggor, Paddy and Till are loved by UFC fans around the world yet you'd struggle to find someone on this forum who has ever cheered for them. The colour of the skin is never brought up when we bad mouth them.

Is this forum racist for hating Masvidal? Do we dislike people of Hispanic backgrounds? (Me and Ebb not included in that statement).

Big characters are polarising. There aren't many fighters who are universally loved by the MMA community. Wonderboy and Lewis are the only ones I can think of.

[neil]

2 hours ago, Carbomb said:

I really wish people like White and Rogan would just fucking say something meaningful and emphatic about it

LOL

[Carbomb]

I know, it's asking too much. But they're the ones these Bang Bros listen to. 

Maybe that's the problem: those dickheads listen to them because they're not the kind of people who'd ever say anything about it.

[David]

56 minutes ago, Zebra Kid Mark said:

I don't buy into the MMA fans are racist argument at all. How can you explain that the biggest star on the show with the best biggest crowd reaction was Muslim. Wouldn't all the racists hate him?

Wouldn't all the racists hate Derrick Lewis? The man is universally loved by everyone and even when he loses or has a boring fight he doesn't get any hate. I don't like picking and choosing who and when something is racist in order to fit their narrative.

As you probably already know, it's not just a case of people hating anyone who's black. It's more about hating those particular guys who are, as some MMA fans say, "narcissistic" and "too cocky." As I mentioned, there's clear double-standards there. We see McGregor and now Pimblett seemingly loved and applauded for their cocky attitude, yet when it's someone like Sterling it's off-putting. Why is that?

It all goes back to the era of fighters of certain ethnicities "knowing their place." It's okay for them to make jokes about their balls being hot and giving everyone a big laugh, but if they're coming across a little too smart, a little too opinionated, or a little too full of themselves? That's not quite on. 

Besides, your argument falls flat when Sterling himself said that he's been called a monkey, and that people have used the N-word towards him. So yeah, there's a decent chunk of MMA fans out there who are racist, and you making excuses isn't helping. 

[Keith Houchen]

1 hour ago, Zebra Kid Mark said:

McGreggor, Paddy and Till are loved by UFC fans around the world yet you'd struggle to find someone on this forum that has ever cheered for them

Well that’s just bollocks. McG was everyone’s favourite before the coke took over. Till has lots of fans on here to this day. 

[Zebra Kid Mark]

33 minutes ago, David said:

As you probably already know, it's not just a case of people hating anyone who's black. It's more about hating those particular guys who are, as some MMA fans say, "narcissistic" and "too cocky." As I mentioned, there's clear double-standards there. We see McGregor and now Pimblett seemingly loved and applauded for their cocky attitude, yet when it's someone like Sterling it's off-putting. Why is that?

It all goes back to the era of fighters of certain ethnicities "knowing their place." It's okay for them to make jokes about their balls being hot and giving everyone a big laugh, but if they're coming across a little too smart, a little too opinionated, or a little too full of themselves? That's not quite on. 

Besides, your argument falls flat when Sterling himself said that he's been called a monkey, and that people have used the N-word towards him. So yeah, there's a decent chunk of MMA fans out there who are racist, and you making excuses isn't helping. 

I watched the show with a friend and he wanted Yan to win over Sterling, I was baffled as to why he wanted Yan to win, mainly because I love Sterling and can't stand Yan. He told me he didn't like the way Sterling didn't want the title at first when he won it in the cage and then the next day he was posing on IG and calling himself the champ. I don't think why he wanted Yan to win has anything to do with race. I think Yan is a prick but I can't quite verbalise why, race doesn't come into it.

I'm not saying there isn't any racism out there, I just don't think it's right to pigeon hole MMA fans as being racist. There's racism in all corners of the globe unfortunately, to label MMA fans as being racist to fit your narrative and saying it's an MMA problem is an unfair hypothesis. 

I also don't want to get into a "Classic David" 2 page debate where you dissect one sentence in my post and ignore the other parts.

[Keith Houchen]

It’s not just an MMA problem but MMA attracts more than it’s fair share of racists. It’s like how the majority who voted for Brexit wasn’t a racist but the majority who are racist voted for Brexit. 
 

It’s not they’re disliked because they’re black, it’s because they get out of their lane. They’re the uppity black man with a chip on their shoulder as opposed to the likeable beast who knows his place. That place being not to act superior to the white man. 

[David]

14 minutes ago, Zebra Kid Mark said:

I watched the show with a friend and he wanted Yan to win over Sterling, I was baffled as to why he wanted Yan to win, mainly because I love Sterling and can't stand Yan. He told me he didn't like the way Sterling didn't want the title at first when he won it in the cage and then the next day he was posing on IG and calling himself the champ. I don't think why he wanted Yan to win has anything to do with race. I think Yan is a prick but I can't quite verbalise why, race doesn't come into it.

I'm not saying there isn't any racism out there, I just don't think it's right to pigeon hole MMA fans as being racist. There's racism in all corners of the globe unfortunately, to label MMA fans as being racist to fit your narrative and saying it's an MMA problem is an unfair hypothesis. 

I also don't want to get into a "Classic David" 2 page debate where you dissect one sentence in my post and ignore the other parts.

I'm not sure what your friend has to do with the point I was making? I'm not claiming that everyone who doesn't like Sterling is a racist? There will be fans who simply prefer Yan's style over Sterling's, and that's okay of course.

I'm saying that we see Sterling, and other fighters of colour being given shit by fans for the very same things those fans cheer the likes of McGregor and Pimblett for. We've also seen Sterling personally say that he's been called a monkey and the N-word. If that's not racism, I don't know what is.

And of course it's not an "MMA problem" but the lack of any response from the UFC when not just one of their fighters, but an actual champion is making these claims is fucking ridiculous. We've seen other sports at least acknowledge the problem and offer some form of condemnation, but MMA and the UFC in particular seems to shy away from that.

In fact, do you remember Dana's response when Woodley pointed to the abuse he received from certain fans, and mentioned the treatment of other African-American athletes in the UFC such as Demetrious Johnson and Jon Jones? He raised the subject of certain fighters being treated differently by the fans and also the UFC. 

How did Dana react? By recognising his concerns and offering to have a quiet word? Or even to admit that some fans act in a terrible fashion and condemning them? Of course not. He said:

Quote

The thing is with Tyron, he's a smart guy, he's a good looking kid, he's explosive, he's got knockout power but he's a bit of a drama queen. The way that he's talking about [being] treated, too and I think he means the fans, when a fight is made and Conor McGregor is a perfect example. Conor McGregor has that fight anybody, anywhere attitude but doesn't just have the attitude, he lives it. I've stood in front of him [on] 10 days notice and his opponent falls out and he doesn't care. He doesn't care. Bring them all in, I'm better than everybody, I'm the man, I'm the guy.

If Tyron Woodley had that attitude, Tyron Woodley would be a massive star. But he does these things where he'll say on Instagram where [the fans] know who's next, who's supposed to fight next, and he'll go on social media and go 'I'm not fighting him, I don't want to fight him, I think I want to fight this guy' and that's not what people want to hear. People don't want to hear that.

He'll start fighting and arguing with people on social media. Then he wonders why when we show up for a press conference the whole crowd's booing him. They're not booing him cause he's black. There's tons of black guys fighting in the UFC. You know what I mean?

And you wonder why I say there's a race issue with MMA fans? Let's be honest, when the guy who runs the promotion, the face of the company dismisses accusations of racism as someone being "a drama queen" it's quite obvious there's issues.

You're right though, let's not turn it into a two page debate. There is no debate really, you're not understanding what I'm saying. So, best to leave it at that.

Edited April 14, 2022 by David

[Zebra Kid Mark]

4 minutes ago, David said:

You're right though, let's not turn it into a two page debate. There is no debate really, you're not understanding what I'm saying. So, best to leave it at that.

[David]

Point proven. Time to move on.

[wandshogun09]

If we’re moving on, what do you lot make of Sterling wanting to defend against Jose Aldo next?

To me there’s 3 options for Aljo’s next fight;

1) A third fight with Petr Yan.

2) TJ Dillashaw

3) Jose Aldo 

Coming out of this show I assumed we’d be getting Sterling vs Yan 3. That’s easily the least appealing option of the 3 there for me but it’s the one I expected given that the decision has been debated. Myself though, I definitely think the Yan thing could do with a rest for the time being. Give them both a fresh opponent.

Immediately after the show, I saw Aljo and TJ going back and forth so I got on board with that and didn’t really consider any other possibilities. But Sterling saying he thinks Aldo deserves a crack has really got my interest. I love that pairing.

I think most just assumed that if it wasn’t gonna be Yan again next then it’d probably be Dillashaw. But looking at it, I think Aldo’s got a stronger argument for a title shot anyway. He’s on a 3 fight winning streak over Marlon Vera, Pedro Munhoz and Rob Font. And I thought he’s looked better with each performance. On the other hand, TJ’s coming off that split decision over Sandhagen which many felt he lost, and he’d been gone 2 years on a USADA suspension before that and had been knocked out by Cejudo in seconds. Purely as a fight, I wouldn’t be mad at Sterling vs Dillashaw but I don’t think he deserves it any more than Aldo does at this time.

If I had my way, I’d do Aljo vs Aldo for the gold and have Yan vs Dillashaw in a #1 contenders fight. Below that you can have Sandhagen against the winner of Font vs Vera and if Frankie Edgar insists on fighting again, maybe do Edgar vs Cruz. 

[Egg Shen]

yeah, pretty sure Dana shut down a 3rd Yan fight too.

Sterling fighting TJ is the fight he needs to win over some of the naysayers, there's no bigger villain in the game than Dillashaw.

I could see them go down the Aldo route for the legacy aspect to it all. The UFC will always give Aldo some special treatment too. Unless they are planning on doing Aldo/Cruz or something.

There's also Cejudo, i think he's gonna goto 145 though if he does come back.

[Carbomb]

I'm up for Aljo/Aldo. A third Yan fight is definitely a given for the future, but Sterling should get a chance to defend against some other opponent. He's already had a shittier time over his title reign than any other champion has; they should give him a break, and a chance to properly legitimise his reign.