Paid Members LaGoosh Posted October 15, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted October 15, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, air_raid said: I thought we were friends? A good mate and occasional keffer put it best what was wrong with TLJ by making me put it in my own words : ”When you think about the first film, what one image comes into your head?” raid : “Luke blowing up the Death Star.” ”And when you think about the last film (at the time) what one image comes into your head?” raid : “One ship very very slowly chasing another ship.” Hey even if you didn't enjoy it anyone who doesn't recognize that it's probably got the best imagery of any Star Wars film except the first 2 is just plain wrong. It's an absolutely beautiful film to look at. Jurassic Park: The Lost World is no where near as good as the first one obviously but it's a very fun theme park ride-type of a movie. Some great sequences, effects, music and Pete Postelwaithe is fantastic in it chewing all the scenery. Edited October 15, 2021 by LaGoosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members chokeout Posted October 15, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted October 15, 2021 My rating of sequels seems to be based entirely over how often they were shown on TV in the 80s so Temple of Doom is the best because it always seemed to be on BBC1 on the Sunday afternoon slot growing up (followed by the Muppets!), Empire Strikes back was on ITV on Christmas Day, with a childline banner running across the bottom which I recorded and played to death so was defacto the best. In fact the original Star Wars never seemed to be on terrestrial TV and had almost mystical status before the VHS re-release. Same with Aliens, I must have seen it 20 times before I even saw the original and only knew of it because my Dad told me about it. Aliens was, in my head, the greatest action film ever made. Superman 2, even with the shit reshoots, comedy and man in a wig pretending to be Gene Hackman and Spiderman 2 have never been bettered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Chest Rockwell Posted October 15, 2021 Moderators Share Posted October 15, 2021 Superman 2 is so much better than the first one. Can't believe it's taken this long to come up.. Good shout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 6 minutes ago, Chest Rockwell said: Superman 2 is so much better than the first one. Can't believe it's taken this long to come up.. Good shout. Â On 10/14/2021 at 2:00 PM, King Coconut said: Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westlondonmist Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Chest Rockwell said: Superman 2 is so much better than the first one. Can't believe it's taken this long to come up.. Good shout. Which version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awards Moderator HarmonicGenerator Posted October 15, 2021 Awards Moderator Share Posted October 15, 2021 3 hours ago, air_raid said: I thought we were friends? A good mate and occasional keffer put it best what was wrong with TLJ by making me put it in my own words : ”When you think about the first film, what one image comes into your head?” raid : “Luke blowing up the Death Star.” ”And when you think about the last film (at the time) what one image comes into your head?” raid : “One ship very very slowly chasing another ship.”  TLJ isn’t immune from criticism but if you want a Star Wars film full of gorgeous images it’s surely one of the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Chest Rockwell Posted October 15, 2021 Moderators Share Posted October 15, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, westlondonmist said: Which version? Either. But my preferred version would be the Donner cut all the way almost to the end and then get rid of that stupid as fuck spinning-the-world-backwards bollocks. I feel like I should try to make that edit for myself. Edited October 15, 2021 by Chest Rockwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 (edited) On 10/13/2021 at 6:05 PM, BomberPat said: I'm glad I'm not the only one with a soft spot for Psycho II. It's daft, lots of characters are weirdly and inexplicably protective of Norman Bates, the twist at the end is silly, and part of the actual ending is unintentionally hilarious, but somehow it all works. I like that they don't just rehash the original story, but add layers to it, even if some of those layers don't quite make sense. You're right about Anthony Perkins' performance, though - that, and the way they use the house itself as almost a character in its own right, is what elevates the film beyond a fairly flimsy script, he's absolutely superb. He's believably repressed - even moreso than in the original - and trying to do everything right, while seemingly the motel, and the world around him, conspires to turn him back into the psycho killer he was.  I saw Psycho II before Psycho. I'm delighted to see its praises being sang. I always thought everyone in it really does a great job, it's got some really great tension, slight dark comedy and it's really worth sequel. Shame they made more. Also Godfather II is best for John Cazale being absolutely heartbreaking. Edited October 15, 2021 by Chili Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members chokeout Posted October 15, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted October 15, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chili said: I saw Psycho II before Psycho. I'm delighted to see its praises being sang. I always thought everyone in it really does a great job, it's got some really great tension, slight dark comedy and it's really worth sequel. Shame they made more.  Spoiler This scene was one of the funniest things I had ever seen when me and my brother saw it for the first time. Any tension or drama they had built went straight out the window with the comedy 'klang' of the shovel. https://gfycat.com/descriptivelargedodobird  Edited October 15, 2021 by chokeout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, chokeout said:  Hide contents This scene was one of the funniest things I had ever seen when me and my brother saw it for the first time. Any tension or drama they had built went straight out the window with the comedy 'klang' of the shovel. https://gfycat.com/descriptivelargedodobird  I'm absolutely certain we discussed this in person once and laughed about how ludicrous and odd this was. It's literally an Alan 'KLANG.' Edited October 16, 2021 by Chili Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted October 16, 2021 Paid Members Share Posted October 16, 2021 19 hours ago, LaGoosh said: Hey even if you didn't enjoy it I enjoyed it in parts, to be fair even as a whole, but there’s no escaping that it felt a colossal letdown for me after the uplifting love letter to fans that Force felt like - a mostly ponderous trundle of the two ships through space while Eddie Hitler keeps us abreast of the fuel situation like Boris Johnson cosplaying Captain Grey. The thing I don’t get is that many of the people lauding TLJ for “doing something different” and criticise Force for following the same structure as Star Wars choose to completely disregard the way TLJ follows exactly the same structure as Empire - a daring Rebellion/Resistance escape, the next big thing separate from the rest of the heroes getting trained somewhere remote by a Jedi legend, a distraction location side quest (Cloud City/Canto Bright), a betrayal, a devastating family revelation from the villain to the main hero, an ending that makes you feel like our heroes are really up against it. I am a fan of Rian squeezing his Ewok equivalent into TLJ however, because it excuses Porgs from being the reason the third film would be slated so much by the same weirdos that hate ROTJ so much because of Ewoks. The bigger problem (aside from running out of fuel) is that TLJ undid a lot of what Force set up, and Force was a film a lot of us really enjoyed. Six years later in fact, I still can’t believe how good it was for me. Introducing Snoke as the big bad? Bin him, he doesn’t matter. Who were Reys parents? Screw that, they were nobody. Both of these were retconned by Rise to have some actual meaning rather than just plot elements casually discarded but at the time I felt like Russo swerves right down to Ren’s fake babyface turn. Plus the extra kick of Rose stopping Finn from sacrificing himself for the greater good of the Resistance which felt like complete bollocks coming so soon after Rogue One which hammered home so beautifully that the cause was everything, no matter the cost. Unfortunately genuine criticisms have been washed away with the assumptions that if you had issues with TLJ you hate black people or women. I dunno, Rise had its issues but it set it stall out early - the Emperor’s back and Rey will have to come stop him - and off they went. It felt more in line with the feel of Force which I’d loved and a decent ending of the Luke/Leia era. There was a sense of haste about “Shit, dust off the Emperor” and disregarding what TLJ did in some respects but that was only necessitated by the former binning off Snoke as they did and the Rey/Ren will they-won’t they creating the need for a 100% pure baddie to end boss it just as Palpatine has been when Vaders commitment to the Dark Side waned. It just felt more of a movie that knew what story it was trying to tell. Chewie getting his medal was the kind of fan service I needed too. Or maybe I just hate on TLJ because after Hope, Empire, Menace, Clones, Sith and Force, I can no longer just say “Jedi” and fellow fans know which film I’m referring to. 17 hours ago, HarmonicGenerator said: TLJ isn’t immune from criticism but if you want a Star Wars film full of gorgeous images it’s surely one of the best. Poor choice of words. Not a “visual” as such re: image, but the enduring  memory. In Star Wars it was Luke making the Death Star go pop. In Empire it was Vader telling Luke he’s his father. In TLJ it’s the baddies lamenting (Skinner voice) “They’re very slowly getting away!” while Vyv assures us their fuel is going to run out soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavemanLynn Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 You've highlighted two particular points there as negative that are reasons why I prefer TLJ to Rise - the offing of Snoke and the confirmation of Rey's unimportant parentage. After the already-dated unnecessary CGI insertions that marred Lucas' myriad reeditions, the killing of an unnecessarily-CGI rehash seems almost meta. You argue that Rise needed the Emperor to ensure it had an all-bad villain, but that undercuts the journey Kylo went on throughout TLJ and the strength of him as a standalone villain for the ending. After starting as a petulant Vader fanboy in Force, Ren goes fully off the deep end, realising that his powers outstrip that of his supposed idol, that he may be the most powerful Jefi in the universe, and that all who came before him, including his own family, have to die. He goes from not knowing "if (he) has the strength to do it" to killing his father Han Solo, killing the de facto Emperor, and decimating the Resistance, and all after it's confirmed he already torched the last remaining Jedi dojo. Him screaming "MORE!" at the First Order to empty their weapons into the ghost of Skywalker is such a fitting undoing, and is, for me, the defining image of TLJ. It's Adam Driver's sympathetic performance that convinces you there's still a kernel of good in him. Rey's parents being nobodies is such a wonderful twist. It ensures that Star Wars isn't just melodramatic family in-fighting. That, combined with the closing shot of the random kid playing Harry Potter with a broom, blows the mythos open, in that now, ANYONE can be a Jedi. Fuck your chosen-one narratives - the idea that anyone can be a hero is so much more empowering than midichlorian-based natural selection. It also could have been a perfect jumping-off point for the finale - Kylo Ren having just wiped out Sith 2.0 suddenly versus the entire galaxy. Which, funnily enough, is exactly how he felt and exactly what he wanted. It was a fantastic logical setup to an epic final battle and poetic comeuppance. All undone in the first 5 minutes of Rise, the blandest, laziest of the three. TLJ is far from perfect. I agree wholeheartedly that the Canto Bight detour is redundant, and seems like Disney trying to get through Benicio del Toro's set number of appearances as quick as poss. There are a dozen other planets they could've shown a kid with the Force on, but I suppose they wanted something more immediately in the memory. But it is far and away the best and certainly most divergent, not subversive, of the new trilogy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Coconut Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 (edited) I think we can all agree that that both Rocky III and IV are better than all that tosh what they just said. Edited October 16, 2021 by King Coconut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Danger Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 Tommy Gunn didn’t die for this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Of Swing Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 Sticks head above the trenches. I enjoyed Blair Witch Project 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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