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AEW All Out 2021 - September 5th


Supremo
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3 hours ago, Devon Malcolm said:

It really makes me sad to see people talking about The Young Bucks as one of the greatest tag teams of all time, or THE greatest. Each to their own but christ almighty.

To be fair, a lot of fans, myself included, grew up watching WWE at a time when tag team wrestling just didn't matter. I started watching in late 2002, meaning I also didn't get to see some of the teams that might traditionally be considered "the greatest" at a time when they were active. 

Are The Bucks one of the greatest tag teams of all time? I really don't know. Are they one of the greatest tag teams I've actually seen wrestle? Most definitely. 

Two different things of course, but I definitely see where that view might come from; along with there being an element of recency bias. 

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18 minutes ago, Tsurutagun said:

The match is a no dq match taking place in a steel cage that can rip your skin to shreds and both teams absolutely despise each other but lets make sure one member of each team should stand in the corner at all times and that teammates should slap hands because that guy will be illegal otherwise 🙄

That was absolutely not the point I was making.

I was questioning the claim that the cage match is one of the greatest tag team matches of all time.

I wouldn't include it in that conversation, but - having really enjoyed the match - I would say it was one of the greatest steel cage matches I have ever seen.

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21 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

As for MJF, I don't rate him. I see him talked about as the second coming of old fashioned heel workers, but it's all really obvious cheap heat. His social media is pretty tragic, just real lowest common denominator stuff, and in-ring I couldn't tell you a single classic MJF match. I think people have just been so used to years of scripted WWE promos that they've been fooled into thinking that someone who can talk confidently off the cuff is an absolute master of mic work, when it's all very basic stuff. Screams midcard to me. 

For someone so young, he's been very protected in terms of working matches.

You would think he would be the perfect person to throw out on Dark to do some random squashes and the odd competitive match so that Wardlow could get involved in some way.

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Am I going mad or did WWE do a couple of tag team cage matches where people were required to tag in and out? Seems silly now but I’m certain I’ve seen one.

I think it boils down to what we discussed recently in regards to psychology. Whilst you’ll get the old school viewpoint that singles matches need you to work and sell a body part and tag matches need ref distractions, heat and then a big hot tag, to think that’s the only way to successfully tell a story is incredibly narrow-minded.

I really rate the Bucks. I can’t tell you exactly how their style works or why they’re so great, all I can say is that their matches always entertain me, get over with the crowd, and specifically since becoming heels they make me really care about who wins and loses. I’ve wanted to see them lose their belts for what’s felt like forever. It was delightful seeing it happen in that cage.

I think saying they only wrestle one style of match is nothing short of insanity after the year they’ve just had, too. It’s almost felt like an open troll of your Cornette types the way they’ve effortlessly produced belters with a huge array of opponents in such different styles of matches. Weapons matches, cage matches, backstage brawls, old school fights with Moxley and Kingston, story-based drama with Hsngman and Omega or that love letter to tag wrestling with FTR. 

For the longest time I’ve believed that’s why Matt Jackson continues to sell the back, year on year. Almost as a dig at everyone who says they don’t know how to work. They clearly do know how to work, they understand that it should be about selling your body parts and all that lovely stuff, but they’re confident enough to know they’ve got a thousand other ways to tell a story and get over, all of which has made them wildly successful. I’d hate to think what the wrestling landscape would look like right now if they only ever wrestled the way you’re, “supposed,” to.

I’m assuming they lost the belts on Sunday so they can fast-track the inevitable match against Danielson and Punk without undermining the ranking system. Am I being too trigger happy thinking they’ll do it at Arthur Ashe?

 

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With the right story/opponents a Bucks match can be a great spectacle but without any of that they can be a real chore to watch imo. 

The main reason I loved the cage match was because I went into it thinking those pricks have to lose, it just feels like the right time and that's what happened.

So I got a thrilling spot heavy match and the result I wanted which is win/win for me. 

Being an old fart and still largely stuck in my ways I wouldn't call the match greatest anything but an excellent modern wrestling match.

Besides everyone knows that War Games 92 is the greatest cage match of all time. 

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The Bucks keep stealing other people’s stuff but they’re blatant with it. A lot of their spots also resemble gymnastics routines. I can see why some people don’t like them. Cornette reckons that the Bucks are also holding back FTR on purpose, turning them into a jobber tag team just to make themselves look better. I know some of you dislike Cornette but he has booked in various promotions and been on the WWF’s creative team so maybe his opinion is valid over this.

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9 minutes ago, Supremo said:

I can’t tell you exactly how their style works or why they’re so great, all I can say is that their matches always entertain me, get over with the crowd, and specifically since becoming heels they make me really care about who wins and loses. I’ve wanted to see them lose their belts for what’s felt like forever. It was delightful seeing it happen in that cage.

And that’s what matters. It is after all what made us fall in love with wrestling in the first place. As you said “When it’s good….”

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1 minute ago, LCJ said:

The Bucks keep stealing other people’s stuff but they’re blatant with it. A lot of their spots also resemble gymnastics routines. I can see why some people don’t like them. Cornette reckons that the Bucks are also holding back FTR on purpose, turning them into a jobber tag team just to make themselves look better. I know some of you dislike Cornette but he has booked in various promotions and been on the WWF’s creative team so maybe his opinion is valid over this.

I'm not arsed where he's booked. Miserable shit literally can't contribute to the business he was in beyond a podcast, he's done such a sterling job with his credibility too. Cornette also specifically mentioned FTR which invalidates his point anyways. He wants to give FTR bananas so of course he has another mad conspiracy. Young Bucks do my head in sometimes but for all the 'cba with WWE' chatter, you still get the same criticism of the Bucks, like film genres. 

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13 minutes ago, Supremo said:

Am I going mad or did WWE do a couple of tag team cage matches where people were required to tag in and out? Seems silly now but I’m certain I’ve seen one.

 

I honestly can’t think of one in WWE but I could well be wrong. The only match like that that I can remember was one between The Horsemen and The Rock n’ Roll Express that was on the first ‘Wrestling’s Greatest Steel Cage Matches’ DVD

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1 hour ago, Keith Houchen said:

I think it’s almost a generation behind thing. The people who grew up with territories didn’t like the rock and wrestling of the WWF, who in turn saw the attitude era through unkind eyes. Attitude era don’t see ruthless aggression as their wrestling etc etc

AEW seems fine for people who have been left behind by WWE and that’s great. It’s almost like a classic metal night where people don’t have to go and moan about Yungblud or whatever Kerrang is playing that wouldn’t be on a rock night in my day when things were better and proper. 
 

In short, watch what entertains you, don’t keep watching something that doesn’t. I much prefer reading enthusiastic posts where people are excited over frankly weird ones about a show you haven’t liked in years. 

Completely get where you're coming from, but just to use it to expand on a point it does kind of reminds me of that interview Kurt Angle done a few days ago where he talked about AEW's success in being that they're doing the Attitude Era more than the WWE are right now.

Kurt's probably not the only one doing this. I'm sure there's no end of guys from that generation - still working full time to protect it as the greatest era in the business - who are only too eager to hold AEW's success synonymous with "Oh, they're bringing back what we done with the Monday night wars!"

Doubtless a more aggressive edge to the programing and surprise debuts on tap was a part of a bygone era, and doubtless it does draw on people being sick shit of WWE for a lot of its fan energy, but I see them doing something completely fresh and new. 

I don't know too much about MMA, but its rise looks to me a lot more like the UFC boom in the mid noughties more than anything else in wrestling. Slick, reality based combat programing that tells stories through extremely distilled versions of real world personalities, that manages to always feel 'current' and doesn't insult your intelligence.

TNA tried to bring back the Attitude Era multiple times - pretty much to the letter - and it fell on its arse each time. I mean I enjoyed watching it fall on its arse, but yeah. The "Just like the Attitude Era" stuff is losing more and more relevance as time goes on. 

We're finally over that hump of fans looking to the past - for the most part - for inspiration I think. They want what AEW's presenting right now. 

Edited by Gay as FOOK
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30 minutes ago, Supremo said:

I’m assuming they lost the belts on Sunday so they can fast-track the inevitable match against Danielson and Punk without undermining the ranking system. Am I being too trigger happy thinking they’ll do it at Arthur Ashe?

Perhaps it's wishful thinking, but the more I think about it, the more I hope they open with Eddie Kingston winning the TNT title from Miro, and close with Hangman Page winning the AEW title from Omega. As far as Omega/Page goes, I think it's perfectly suited to a shorter build, given that the bulk of the work has already been done to build up to that match. 

I do think that it's probable that Cole, Punk and Danielson will all wrestle on that show, so perhaps we'll see Cole and The Bucks vs. Punk, Danielson and a partner (perhaps Darby, or Christian?)

I don't think it's trigger happy to absolutely load that line-up - they've just signed a bunch of huge stars, and quickly following that up with a card that blows anything WWE could do out of the water makes a lot of sense to me. 

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I absolutely hate to say it, but now, given everything that’s happened, and the buzz surrounding all these new guys, I feel like Omega needs to keep the belt in order to do the Title matches with Danielson and Punk. I still want Hangman to be the one who takes it, but I don’t feel anywhere near as much urgency as I did a month or so ago.

I see no reason why Arthur Ashe can’t end with Kingston holding the TNT Title above his head. That feels perfect.

If they don’t do Danielson and Punk vs. The Bucks in New York then the next dream match after that is Danielson vs. Orange Cassidy. It’s destiny!

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Edited by Supremo
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1 minute ago, Supremo said:

I feel like Omega needs to keep the belt in order to do the Title matches with Danielson and Punk. I still want Hangman to be the one who takes it, but I don’t feel anywhere near as much urgency as I did a month or so ago.

 

I think you get a battle of the Adams when Page returns, leading to Omega getting toppled in the end.

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