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On 24/01/2021 at 2:36 PM, Liam O'Rourke said:

The biggest thing to say about Taker being an all-time great goes back to a question I'd love somebody to answer in a way that pushes the Taker side of things, not to challenge it, but because I legit want to see the case for it - does the trajectory of the WWF at any point change if Undertaker isn't there? And if not, how many tippy-top all-time greats can you say that for?

Been thinking about this. Firstly, from the POV of what I'd miss. The Hell In A Cell concept and that first match are things wrestling would be poorer without. Also his great comeback in 2000 with that monster pop. The summer of 1998? I'm struggling beyond that with much more that I'd really miss. And I say that as someone who has been a fan for most of the last 30 years.

From a business viewpoint, its a really hard one to judge precisely because he's never been the most important person in the company at any point but has always been crucial support. I've always thought he was most important during the dark days of the mid 90s when anyone who was a name was valuable and he was a name who'd always been protected and was still young. However, the fact that he buggered off for most of 1994 and it didn't harm them hurts that argument. In fact, none of his absences ever did them any harm. He was a full part of both post-boom periods. Not his fault but further evidence that he didn't matter individually to their health.

Honestly, if he doesn't appear in 1990, I don't think it makes a jot of difference. Maybe someone like Sid becomes more important a year later? Someone else would always fill that spot.

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Back in my day, troll posters on forums had a single gimmick and had to rely on the content of their posts to gain irritation. Views and jokes that didn't always work, but at least they tried and kept

Bit of chat in other threads about this but it's worth a discussion. Daft old cunt The Undertaker has been opening his gob on Joe Rogan. Obviously had some comments about not watching WWE which are in

He's spent the better part of 25 years desperately trying to convince people that he's an MMA hard man and not a bloke in a shit drag queen's make-up pretending to be a zombie wizard. It's such an inf

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Goldberg’s come out agreeing with Taker that this business is, “soft,” now.

These fucking dorks these days, not ending people’s careers with kicks to the head, slicing their arms open punching windows or knocking themselves out cold on metal ring posts. Bunch of pussies.

Most of the time, I think the way wrestlers uphold kayfabe and stay in character online and in interviews is the dumbest shit in the world. And then every now and then you get a glimpse of how awful some of their real life personalities are and you realise why it’s still important.

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Goldberg is the biggest dork in wrestling. Spends all his time miserable and stressed out about it and desperate to prove how much of a tough guy he is. The Network documentaries on him showed him to be incredibly insecure. Spent all day panicking before his match with Brock...it was 90 seconds long and consisted of three moves. He's a really unlikeable guy. 

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Funny that it's both the pretend MMA fighters, while Ken Shamrock's gladly doing dives and comedy spots in Impact, and talking openly about how the business has evolved and the importance of evolving with it.

Yesterday I read a comment about wrestling from the 1930s that;
"One man enjoyed the show because it took him back to his ‘young days when men were men! and not the namby-pamby…artificial-hair-curling variety that is most prevalent in the present generation"

Could have been straight out of a Joe Rogan podcast in 2021, or hand-wringing about the weak, effeminate men that would come about from urbanisation in 1800s America. Either we have to believe mad alt-right memes that men have been getting progressively less "manly" every generation, or that it's all a load of insecure bollocks. 

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Always been the case, though, and not just about men, but society in general. If you were to listen to every generation's moaning, you'd think we'd been on a downward spiral since fucking Zhou China. Somehow, we're still around.

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29 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

Goldberg is the biggest dork in wrestling. Spends all his time miserable and stressed out about it and desperate to prove how much of a tough guy he is. The Network documentaries on him showed him to be incredibly insecure. Spent all day panicking before his match with Brock...it was 90 seconds long and consisted of three moves. He's a really unlikeable guy. 

Granted you don't and in fact shouldn't need to see anything supplementary from a guy like Goldberg if you're booking him right, but he's far and away the dullest star of his level that the business has ever had surely. 

I'm sure behind that Johnny Cash trained by the Gracies gimmick that Undertaker lets his guard down backstage these days. I can imagine someone like Xavier Woods excitedly trotting up to Goldberg and being given the Louis Theroux treatment or a gruff "Fuck off outta here, kid."

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I seem to remember a bit from the documentary where Luke Gallows invites him out for a beer with the boys and Goldberg, barely even bothering looking at him, just says "I don't even know if I'm going to be here tomorrow". He probably then starting headbutting lockers and crying or something. 

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12 minutes ago, cobra_gordo said:

Did Goldberg make his point whilst forcing his son to take off his shirt in public again?

The stuff with his son cracks me up. Goldberg constantly saying "I want to be a Champion and a hero for my son". His son looks bored as fuck the entire time. His Dad is celebrating with the title and he doesn't appear to give two shits. 

Not as funny as Shane's kids laughing their tits off while Kevin Owens beats up their dad though mind.

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I actually listened to the podcast today whilst pissing about.

Surprisingly, Undertaker doesn’t come across like as bad a guy as those comments make him sound in isolation. Yes, he’s in thrall to his era and wasn’t exactly complementary of the new era, but he does accept that the young guys probably think he’s just an old geezer and that they’ve got it tough too.

His belief’s on the current product don’t exactly surprise me, but he was very respectful of the business in general and still seemed very proud of the WWE. I’d say the most sketchy thing he said was about people moving to Texas from California: “bring your money, leave your values.”

Joe Rogan came across as weirdly respectful of wrestling too, until right at the end when Taker kindly offered to roll out the red carpet for him at next years Mania and Rogan might as well have said “fuck off mate.” That really humanised Taker for me, he seemed kind of sad.

Rogan is such a tool. Just be a fucking human being you weird goblin and just be grateful, whether you might be busy is pretty irrelevant 15 months away.

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On 25/01/2021 at 9:36 PM, tiger_rick said:

Been thinking about this. Firstly, from the POV of what I'd miss. The Hell In A Cell concept and that first match are things wrestling would be poorer without. Also his great comeback in 2000 with that monster pop

I'd agree with the above. I'd also say that the WWF/E would have been poorer without Undertaker because they'd miss out on several big, iconic moments that when added up over the years, almost forgive the 80% guff.

HIAC is one for sure. Mankind being thrown from the roof, Kane's terrifying introduction at Badd Blood, the 'making' of Brock Lesnar with the visual of a bloody, beaten Undertaker.

Judgement Day 2000 - Agreed one of the best pops ever. To me his return in the biker gimmick ushered in a different era/feel to the WWE that I don't think could have been achieved otherwise. 

Kane - As above, an iconic debut followed by one of Undertaker's best ever Wrestlemania matches. The inferno match - albeit goofy in today's world it was iconic for the time and again pushed the boundary of what was possible. The Brothers of Destruction wouldn't exist without either of them. I'd argue that some of Undertaker's best work came in the tag team division (particularly in the early run). 

Wrestlemania - You'd miss out on several iconic moments that really defined WWE in my opinion.

WM25 vs HBK is possibly the best mania match ever in my opinion.

WM26 vs HBK retirement match, who else could have given Michaels such a compelling story and send off? Yes there are technically better wrestlers out there but it just made sense with years of storylines coming together.

WM27 vs HHH The first time I ever thought that the streak was in doubt. I remember my own reaction to HHH delivering the tombstone to Taker and the crowd were absolutely bonkers. The image of him being stretchered out still sticks in my head. Not a traditional 'moment' but it encapsulated the aura/legend perfectly. He would literally die trying to protect the streak. 

WM28 vs HHH The end of an era and the three of them, in arms, at the end of a war. Again, ushering in a different tone in wrestling and commentary got it right for a change 'They know things will never be the same again, they might never be in the same health, the same place at the same time ever again.' 

WM30 vs Brock Lesnar The reaction at the end will never get old.

Latterly (for me anyway) he also made Wrestlemania more of a big deal. You'd have the title matches but I also wanted to see how they'd handle him and what the story would be heading into Mania.

I think for all the rubbish and hokey nonsense over the years we'd miss quite a lot. 

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3 hours ago, LaGoosh said:

The stuff with his son cracks me up. Goldberg constantly saying "I want to be a Champion and a hero for my son". His son looks bored as fuck the entire time. His Dad is celebrating with the title and he doesn't appear to give two shits. 

Not as funny as Shane's kids laughing their tits off while Kevin Owens beats up their dad though mind.

Sonberg is a living meme though. Hes also grown like 20 years in 3. 

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