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I think putting the belt on Randy is a step forward. It may be I'm being harsh here, but from the little I've seen, Drew hasn't been great. I don't think its Drew's fault either for full disclosure. I think the guy has been booked into this tough and hench but nice and handsome role where there's absolutely no depth to his character. He's a big Scottish fella, that's it. Why should I care? I don't know how much difference having a crowd would have had, but I don't think its helped.

At least Randy has a history and a little bit of depth to his character. I've always thought The Miz had a good amount of charisma. I'd like to see him succeed.

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Yep. All I’ll mainly be doing is echoing @tiger_rickand @BomberPat. For as much as I loved their match at Night of Champions, I hated Roman vs. Jey Uso in the Cell. It was as if HBK and Road Dogg watc

Miz has the MITB briefcase, Orton is World Champ. WWE going back to the glory days of 2010 I see. 

Where do you even begin with this.

29 minutes ago, Devon Malcolm said:

Where do you even begin with this.

I do need to say here i haven't watched any full shows from WWE since mania. However i have watched bits and pieces and kept up with results and goings on so it's not like i've dropped out the loop and not paid attention at all. 

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the problem with Randy Orton is that he's (from what I've seen) been on top form for the last few months, and if it were anyone else he probably would be the right choice for champion. But we've watched Randy Orton on top form for a few months, then coasting for the next six, for years, so it feels utterly uninspired. He'd be better off falling into the John Cena role of having fun matches but staying away from the belt for the rest of his career, but they barely have a main event scene to speak of right now, so who else should they rely on?

It's also odd to have heel champions on both brands - though without house shows and ticket sales to worry about, I suppose that doesn't matter so much, and it's purely a creative issue. Unless this is a short term deal to get the belt eventually on to someone else, having two heel champions when the gimmick of the next PPV is to have them face each other feels like a mis-step, but also having two heel champions toward the end of the year feels like a set-up for two babyface chase storylines going on for Wrestlemania season.

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2 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

the problem with Randy Orton is that he's (from what I've seen) been on top form for the last few months, and if it were anyone else he probably would be the right choice for champion. But we've watched Randy Orton on top form for a few months, then coasting for the next six, for years, so it feels utterly uninspired. He'd be better off falling into the John Cena role of having fun matches but staying away from the belt for the rest of his career, but they barely have a main event scene to speak of right now, so who else should they rely on?

It's also odd to have heel champions on both brands - though without house shows and ticket sales to worry about, I suppose that doesn't matter so much, and it's purely a creative issue. Unless this is a short term deal to get the belt eventually on to someone else, having two heel champions when the gimmick of the next PPV is to have them face each other feels like a mis-step, but also having two heel champions toward the end of the year feels like a set-up for two babyface chase storylines going on for Wrestlemania season.

I couldn't agree with you more and you have pretty much mirrored what i was trying to say previously. I haven't really liked Randy for a long long time, He is a boring/safe/complacent wrestler that doesn't exactly go out there and try to have 5 star matches. He is lucky most the time to scratch the 3 star level. I think if they were done with Drew as champ there are a tone of talent on there main roster they could pass it onto which keeps the interest/fresh feel alive and well. 

Also the point you made about both top belts being held by a heel is a good/interesting point and another chance for the wwe to try and aim for those new/fresh storylines and babyfaces chasing the top titles. I think what they have been doing with Roman has been phenomenal and LOOK they had someone like jey uso someone who was barely a midcard tier guy have multiple main events with their champion and it not come off as boring or looking like they are short changing the fans.

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2 minutes ago, Kfogg1991 said:

I couldn't agree with you more and you have pretty much mirrored what i was trying to say previously. I haven't really liked Randy for a long long time, He is a boring/safe/complacent wrestler that doesn't exactly go out there and try to have 5 star matches. He is lucky most the time to scratch the 3 star level. I think if they were done with Drew as champ there are a tone of talent on there main roster they could pass it onto which keeps the interest/fresh feel alive and well. 

 

That is the issue I have. If you had been watching, the outside the ring Randy has been decent. Really good heel work. But in the ring, it's the same thing we got over a decade ago. I just find him so bland and boring in the ring. They need to create new stars. Stick him and Keith Lee in a title match and you can count me interested. 

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1 minute ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

That is the issue I have. If you had been watching, the outside the ring Randy has been decent. Really good heel work. But in the ring, it's the same thing we got over a decade ago. I just find him so bland and boring in the ring. They need to create new stars. Stick him and Keith Lee in a title match and you can count me interested. 

I've been saying that about the main roster WWE for years now. They have got the best and most impressive roster in the entire wrestling industry overall. On that there is no argument that can be made by anyone. However they just seem so set in making the same mistakes again and again and putting their top belts on the most boring/uninspired talent on their payroll. What i can't understand and get my head around is the fact they have gone around and sucked up every wrestler that has shown anything in terms of ability or excitement but yet they choose to put the heavyweight belt on Randy Orton a guy that hasn't had a fantastic/show stealing match for about 15 years when they could very easily have chosen to put it on someone that has every chance of going out there and making the world watch/engage/talk. 

Your not going to get anyone talking about how much everyone in the world needs to stop what they're doing and go out and watch the latest Orton main event now! 

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Honestly, I think Orton has been great in-ring too from what I've seen, but it's not the sort of "great" that's going to get you excited to watch him again. His second match with Edge was fascinating, because he adapted to a no audience environment better than anyone else in the company - he's usually superb at leaving spaces in his work for the crowd reaction to swell and then dissipate, and he worked at a completely different rhythm because there was no need to do that. Something that practically everyone else in the company has failed at, and now that they have a pretend audience, don't even attempt.

But the paradox of Randy Orton is that I can appreciate everything that makes him an elite level worker, arguably one of the best in the world, while simultaneously finding him extremely dull to watch - and part of that is down to the overexposure of having seen him work for 15 years, which just adds to him being an uninspiring choice.

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58 minutes ago, Kfogg1991 said:

I do need to say here i haven't watched any full shows from WWE since mania. However i have watched bits and pieces and kept up with results and goings on so it's not like i've dropped out the loop and not paid attention at all. 

"I haven't watched Eastenders for about 20 years aside from when Janine pushed Barry off a cliff and I'm infuriated Kathy has the caff again!"

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Orton is a funny one.. I've rarely engaged in any of his matches barring against Foley and Christian. He is the epitome of bland even when he is in a hot angle. He just never seems to be 'him', like he is playing wrestler. For a guy that is so hit and miss motivation wise he has had a ridiculously long run. It's clear Vince trusts him as a fall back guy but who needs to see Orton as any kind of champion in 2020? 

Having anyone featured on top for nearly 20 years is not wise IMO. Unless its someone special like Taker or Michaels. 

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Best PPV of the year for me. Uso v Reigns, Banks v Bayley and Orton v McIntyre were all thoroughly enjoyable matches.

From a psychological point of view, going to the top of a cell doesn’t make much sense. Why would you put yourself in that kind of danger? Why would the opponent follow them when the person at the top of the cell could just stamp on their fingers and cause them to fall? The spot of going through a table after falling on the way back down seems contrived now and recycled but I suppose it wouldn’t feel like HIAC without someone falling off at least once. 2020 has arguably been Randy Orton’s best year. I have no problem with him getting the title. At age 40, Orton is now a veteran, is more mature, is on top of his game and can still go in the ring. I’m guessing Drew will get the belt back at some point but who knows? Miz getting the money in the bank briefcase is interesting to me. If it eventually leads to him and Morrison splitting up then I’m all for it. I think Morrison deserves at least one last singles push in WWE.

Bayley v Banks was just brilliant. One of the best women’s matches I’ve seen. I think having no live crowds has helped Bayley’s confidence and 2020 has been her best year as well. Charlotte and Becky’s absence has probably helped both of them tremendously too as they’re now the top women’s wrestlers in the company and they’re “running with the ball” (to use an Americanism).

Roman Reigns has been more interesting as a heel and his feud with Jey Uso has elevated Jey up the card. I thought the match was a great opener and I liked the ending with Jimmy doing the run in. That should’ve helped get Reigns over as a heel even more. 

This card made a pleasant change as I generally find most WWE TV shows boring these days so maybe things are going to improve?

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6 hours ago, BomberPat said:

I wouldn't be surprised - I think we're going to see the next couple of months basically spent rearranging furniture to get to a Wrestlemania season with fans, which will be a combination of pressing the reset button on stories like Drew's title win, so they can do the feel-good moment with a crowd again, while also trying to get all their ducks in a row to stack the card with big names, because even if they can run Wrestlemania with a live audience, it's going to be a big sell to convince people to travel from all over the world, or even the country, to cram into an arena together, if that's even an option. 

I dont think they are going to have to worry about Mania with fans next year, just can't see it happening.

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38 minutes ago, The King of Old School said:

I dont think they are going to have to worry about Mania with fans next year, just can't see it happening.

Yeah. Even if the US do allow live events again they won't be appearing on too many safe fly lists unless something drastic happens. What percentage of a mania audience is international? 

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Someone on another wrestling forum I frequent has point led out that Orton's reign is more than likely leading to a fucking Edge title programme.

 

Bleak as fuck

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1 hour ago, chokeout said:

Yeah. Even if the US do allow live events again they won't be appearing on too many safe fly lists unless something drastic happens. What percentage of a mania audience is international? 

Not that big a percentage.  It's been said in the past about 40% are usually from the home city, so it'd be a fair bet to say another 40% from other states and then 20% international.

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