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The AEW Women's Division - how can they fix it?


RedRooster

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The problem for me is that I don't care about any of them because they never appear, or they appear on Dark. The women's champion wasn't on the show for months until Thunder Rosa showed up and Thunder Rosa is the best woman they have and she doesn't even work there.

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11 minutes ago, FelatioLips said:

The problem for me is that I don't care about any of them because they never appear, or they appear on Dark. The women's champion wasn't on the show for months until Thunder Rosa showed up and Thunder Rosa is the best woman they have and she doesn't even work there.

Actually, the women's champion has been on pretty much every week on Dynamite. The fact that she didn't register in your memory says volumes about the problems with the division.

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26 minutes ago, FelatioLips said:

The problem for me is that I don't care about any of them because they never appear, or they appear on Dark. The women's champion wasn't on the show for months until Thunder Rosa showed up and Thunder Rosa is the best woman they have and she doesn't even work there.

I'm pretty torn on this because (a) I love Thunder Rosa and (b) I do want them to do better by the division but should that be by bringing in an outside champion? I know some fans love cross-overs and whatever else but I've seen places like ROH become way too reliant on stars from outside and their own stars suffer. Now I'm not saying AEW will become like that but it's also why I'm in no rush to see anyone from NJPW appear or whatever else. They're doing a great job of building their own company.

By bringing Thunder in, it's very much a 'we dont have enough confidence in our own division' type feeling. Would it have happened if this year hadn't gone to shit? Maybe not. But I would rather they invested time in their own.

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The problem is mostly that they haven't given them sufficient time. They have a lot of really great female wrestlers on the books, but it's no surprise that the only ones anyone cares about are the few getting a modicum of character development. 

@Just Some Guy mentioned the Emi Sakura/Riho match, but AEW did the sum total of fuck all to actually promote it.  You had half the Gatoh Move roster and all of Emi's mates selling their history on social media, but AEW were doing none of it on TV. The dynamic of Riho as the champion having to defend against a woman who not only taught her but has known her since she was a child, while Emi knows she's getting older and might not be able to keep up with her star pupil, and that it could be her last/only shot - it pretty much all writes itself, but it only writes itself if the company allows them the time for it to write itself.

The other thing with the likes of Emi is that there's just not a lot of female veterans out there. Because women's wrestling was in the doldrums for so long, there's not exactly a ton of Christopher Daniels-like 20+ year veterans or indie darlings out there ready to sign up. You only get better by working with people better and more experienced than you, and if what few veterans there are all get signed up by WWE, you end up with a bit of a blind leading the blind situation. 

But part of that is seemingly wilful on AEW's part anyway. They let Mercedes Martinez slip through their fingers, had Jazz and Fabi Apache show up in Battle Royals and never again, they forgot that Aja Kong existed after two experiences, but then they sign people with very limited experience, and book Teal Piper in a Battle Royal with a dangerously low level of training. I'll forgive them for not being able to lean too heavily on their partnerships with Stardom or AAA (if they even still exist) due to Covid, but there have been some shocking decisions made already.

In terms of women not in WWE that could make significant contributions? Off the top of my head, and thinking outside of Japan and Mexico - they could have signed Kimber Lee before Impact got her, and then currently on the indies you've got the likes of Solo Darling, Holidead, Charli Evans, Madison Eagles, Nicole Matthews, Killer Kelly, Jazzy Gabert, Nicole Savoy all unsigned, and probably dozens more in scenes I'm not paying attention to. 

They could bring in someone like Molly Holly, Gail Kim or Ivory as an agent/producer. Above all else, though, they need to invest time and effort, and show that they actually give a shit. Because if they don't, why would the audience?

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58 minutes ago, Merzbow said:

All of those characters are as thin as wet bog roll until they've actually written any kind of engaging stories behind them, that's the the number one issue. There's a very basic outline of who these women are, nothing more with the exception of Britt Baker.

Maybe, but RedRooster was asking who they were. I was able to lay each one out in a sentence, like you can any good idea.

I accept that you need to then plug them into engaging storylines but that's another issue.

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To be fair a sentence is about as much detail about them as anyone could muster. A good idea needs to be more than just an idea, there's no flesh to them.

And I say this as someone who's enjoyed watching a good many of the women on the roster, but it's just at the most basic level and my attention is certainly wandering now.

Covid could have been a blessing in disguise, limiting the size of the roster but giving more time to build the few people they do have available.

 

Edited by Merzbow
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That post by @BomberPat has got me thinking, as it covered a lot of good ground. I think they're aware that their women's division needs work and are embarrassed by it. Unfortunately, they're ending up treating it like they're a bit embarrassed by it, and downplaying it a bit. If they thought it was a strength, they'd push it hard - but because they're clearly not, it comes across as a lack of confidence.

If they start presenting it more as a big deal, it'll feel more like a big deal, and that'll help paper over some of the cracks while they do the rest of the work behind the scenes. They've been making some good moves, but they've not got it right yet. And now they're in danger of getting it right, but having already educated the audience that it doesn't matter.

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Just now, BomberPat said:

But part of that is seemingly wilful on AEW's part anyway. They let Mercedes Martinez slip through their fingers, had Jazz and Fabi Apache show up in Battle Royals and never again, they forgot that Aja Kong existed after two experiences, but then they sign people with very limited experience, and book Teal Piper in a Battle Royal with a dangerously low level of training. I'll forgive them for not being able to lean too heavily on their partnerships with Stardom or AAA (if they even still exist) due to Covid, but there have been some shocking decisions made already.

It's already been touched upon but I have no idea why they didn't make a strong effort to sign Deonna Purrazzo when she was released.  Out of the woman who were let go by WWE, she and Sarah Logan would've been the two I would have bought in without hesitation for the female division.  Admittedly Sarah Logan's situation changed, but I can't fathom how someone making the key decisions would overlook those two and instead give a shot to M.J. Jenkins and sign Tay Conti? 

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The one that intrigues me is Anna Jay, and not for the obvious reason. 

I've not seen her wrestle, just a promo pic, and the first question that comes to mind is: is her gimmick that she's a magician, working the Zatanna look? Because if so, that's gold - if there's any gimmick that could be the women's equivalent of Matt Hardy's Broken gimmick (in terms of using smoke, mirrors, and camera tricks, not weirdness), it's hers, and it would be particularly useful for covering her weaknesses if she's green. Also, if I'm able to guess her gimmick from just a picture (assuming that's what it is), it suggests she's got a bit of a clue, and that should be developed.

The other thing that strikes me is that she looks like an actual movie star; the other pretty female wrestlers look like girls-next-door, but Jay looks like someone who would not be out-of-place on a cinema screen, which means she could end up being AEW's Stacy Keibler and fucking off to do movies or TV if she doesn't get anywhere in wrestling. So it may be in their interests to try and push her before that happens.

Edited by Carbomb
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32 minutes ago, Merzbow said:

To be fair a sentence is about as much detail about them as anyone could muster. A good idea needs to be more than just an idea, there's no flesh to them.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree. I think any great wrestling gimmick can be summed up in a sentence. That's getting us off the topic though.

If your interest is wavering though it sounds like the wrestlers are not the problem but lack of narrative. Is that fair?

It seems to be the big issue for the majority of posters in the thread.

Edited by Just Some Guy
Seemed preachy. Sorry.
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17 minutes ago, Just Some Guy said:

We'll have to agree to disagree. I think any great wrestling gimmick can be summed up in a sentence.

Agreed - if not less. I've been to seminars where the trainer argued that any gimmick shouldn't take more than three words to explain.

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33 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

The one that intrigues me is Anna Jay, and not for the obvious reason. 

I've not seen her wrestle, just a promo pic, and the first question that comes to mind is: is her gimmick that she's a magician, working the Zatanna look? Because if so, that's gold - if there's any gimmick that could be the women's equivalent of Matt Hardy's Broken gimmick (in terms of using smoke, mirrors, and camera tricks, not weirdness), it's hers, and it would be particularly useful for covering her weaknesses if she's green. Also, if I'm able to guess her gimmick from just a picture (assuming that's what it is), it suggests she's got a bit of a clue, and that should be developed.

The other thing that strikes me is that she looks like an actual movie star; the other pretty female wrestlers look like girls-next-door, but Jay looks like someone who would not be out-of-place on a cinema screen, which means she could end up being AEW's Stacy Keibler and fucking off to do movies or TV if she doesn't get anywhere in wrestling. So it may be in their interests to try and push her before that happens.

They're already pushing her pretty hard. She's dropped the magician/showgirl look in favour of being something of a dominatrix within the Dark Order. She's very, very green, but she's got a lot of presence. Obviously, she's stunning, but she carries herself like a star and that means more.

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I'll never forget the time they started playing a build up video and it opened up in Japan.

Oh they are actually going to build up Riho Vs. Sakura.

It was a a Kenny Omega video.

Honestly I still get the impression that Tony Khan isn't particularly interested in women's wrestling or even knows much about it.

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1 hour ago, Just Some Guy said:

We'll have to agree to disagree. I think any great wrestling gimmick can be summed up in a sentence.

 

56 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

Agreed - if not less. I've been to seminars where the trainer argued that any gimmick shouldn't take more than three words to explain.

This has come up in the past a lot, and I would both agree and disagree. It's absolutely the case when talking about characters you see for the first time, or for promotions that don't have regular programming with a regular fanbase/audience watching. The wrestler will always need establishing with the crowd with a simple, easy-to-get gimmick.

When you've got TV, however, like AEW, then it becomes less necessary, because the development of said wrestler's character can be followed, allowing detail and nuance to become part of their story. Most obvious cases in point are The Rock and just-before-semi-retiring/COO Triple H. Obviously, their natural charisma and ability that they've developed over the years means they'd probably get over quickly, but say they'd showed up at the beginnings of their respective careers doing the characters they do now - nobody could explain their characters simply, because there's too much to go into.

39 minutes ago, Chris B said:

They're already pushing her pretty hard. She's dropped the magician/showgirl look in favour of being something of a dominatrix within the Dark Order. She's very, very green, but she's got a lot of presence. Obviously, she's stunning, but she carries herself like a star and that means more.

Fair enough. Having not seen her on TV, I didn't really have an idea of what her presence was like, but yeh - if she's carrying herself like that, they've definitely got a star on their hands. Shame she's dropped the magician gimmick - obviously, gimmicks like that in the past didn't work, but in this era of "cinematic" matches, their time may have come. Not to mention that she really nailed the Zatanna look, which, if what I've been reading on here about the AEW tendency towards geekdom is correct, would've been over massively, both in creepy and non-creepy ways.

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