d-d-d-dAz Posted Tuesday at 08:28 AM Share Posted Tuesday at 08:28 AM I'm not sure my first thought after watching a timid Joshua get swallowed alive by Daniel Dubois was "lob him in with an even more concussive puncher!" Both Joshua and Wilder are the wrong side of competitive, and if they must fight again, give them a knockover job against someone who will turtle up and let the ref save them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Lion_of_the_Midlands Posted Tuesday at 09:31 AM Paid Members Share Posted Tuesday at 09:31 AM What are Joshua's options realistically? The big money fight is still Fury, but I dont see it happening. If Fury loses again he will slink off in a sulk and if he wins it will be "No title shot for the big dosser, he's a bum" Or he will give AJ 36 hours to agree to a 90/10 purse split and call him a bottler when he won't sign. So who does AJ fight? Zhang and Wilder are fraught with danger. Parker rematch? Parker probably deserves a title shot. Kabayel is someone theyve offered to fight before when other fights have fallen through, perhaps he is the option, not that there is a lot of money in it. After that it's down a level really. You wouldn't want to see AJ becoming the gatekeeper of the division, because that will surely lead at some point to Itauma and that's an even younger harder hitting proposition than Dubois was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooner Posted Tuesday at 10:28 AM Share Posted Tuesday at 10:28 AM 1 hour ago, d-d-d-dAz said: I'm not sure my first thought after watching a timid Joshua get swallowed alive by Daniel Dubois was "lob him in with an even more concussive puncher!" Both Joshua and Wilder are the wrong side of competitive, and if they must fight again, give them a knockover job against someone who will turtle up and let the ref save them. Both too old now to be facing no hopers who they can bang out quickly, Wilder already did that with Helanius and Joshua has a couple on his resume after the second loss to Usyk. You either get back in there with someone where if you win, you can get back in the mix almost immediately. Its a fight either man can win and loser should know after that it's time to hang the gloves up and go enjoy their life's. There's other guys out there for Joshua like maybe Parker who he beat but has had a resurgence in his career after his last two big, impressive wins over Wilder and Zhang respectively. Joshua could hold out for what happens in the Usyk fight. If Usyk wins again he could face Fury, both coming off big loses and most get the fight they've been wanting for years finally come to fruition. I think if Joshua comes back it's gotta to be someone highly ranked or someone in similar position to him that has a big name still in boxing or they could do a rematch with Dillian Whyte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-d-d-dAz Posted Tuesday at 10:52 AM Share Posted Tuesday at 10:52 AM (edited) Yeah, I think the fundamental difference here is I think Wilder is definitely washed and Joshua probably is. In boxing it's never your ability to hurt people that goes, it's your ability to either withstand the physical or mental turmoil of the sport. And usually when the body goes people carry on anyway. But, when the mind goes... fucking get out. If you need a final hurrah, go find a tin can who'll cover up and let you get your flowers... but more often than not you're better off just going and spending your cash. Both Wilder and Joshua in their recent performances look mentally shot to me. Men who are the bravest of the brave, but who aren't sure whether they want, or need, this anymore. I'm conservative with this stuff, but i'd rather both men got out whilst they're not freezing in interviews. Enjoy whatever years you can. The likelihood of either ever being a proper World Champion again is basically naught anyway. This idea of 'get back in with a live opponent, no time to waste, you'll be back in amongst it son' is what kills fighters and leads to a very depressing final few years of their careers, and probably lives. I'd rather top class boxers got out too early than too late. Edited Tuesday at 10:53 AM by d-d-d-dAz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooner Posted Tuesday at 11:05 AM Share Posted Tuesday at 11:05 AM I think if Joshua believes he can't do it anymore and reach the top that he will retire. I agree with you about Wilder, he's washed, the fights with Fury have done him in. He looked good against Helanius in that short fight on his comeback, guess gve him some confidence but you see then in his last two performances against any live opponent that it isn't there anymore. I think he should retire but I can't see him wanting to go out on being stopped by Zhang in his previous fight. You could molly cuddle both, let them beat up couple of bums, go into a big fight again and see what happens, I would think both would be at the point in their careers now that only a big fight will get them up for putting the work in, living the life, earning huge money as they enter the final stages. I could be wrong and naybe both would enjoy some nice, easy paydays against average fighters. I don't see Wilder being champion again, Joshua I guess depends on if Fury beats Usyk, if he did then there's a chance if he and Fury fought, now whether he'd win or not I have no idea but I'm sure he believes he beats Fury. They never fought each other, now of course it won't ever be the same as what it would have been when it first should have happened like (Mayweather vs Pacquiao) but it's one both could tick off the box if they both wish to continue which I believe both do and will. Unless they want to continue and knock down Tomato cans I can't see the point, be better for both to just retire, enjoy what they achieved, what they earnt and find another way to get what they need to help fill the void of not putting all the work in and dedication for fighting anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted Tuesday at 11:34 AM Paid Members Share Posted Tuesday at 11:34 AM (edited) That’s the problem. Even if you give an AJ or Wilder a bit of a knock-over job next, it’s not gonna end there. Chances are they win easily and then convince themselves they’re ‘back’ and all that. And fans and media will pump them up and encourage it. After AJ’s few wins before this Dubois fight, the amount of people I saw and heard talking like it was proof he was at his best again now was mad. For years the overriding majority opinion I saw was that, if Fury and Joshua fought, Fury would beat him. After AJ knocked out Ngannou though, I started seeing ‘AJ smokes Fury’ takes for the first time in years. It’s a fickle sport. I love Ngannou but that wasn’t the career resurgent win many made it out to be. If AJ fights on and knocks out a relatively easy opponent next, I’ve got no doubt that kind of talk would start up again and that only leads to more fights against top level guys and more of what we saw on Saturday night. I just don’t think AJ’s got it at this level anymore. He’s 35 soon and he’s had a great career but Father Time is undefeated and I think, even if AJ didn’t have his flaws, his time would be just about up anyway now. From bits I’ve seen from Eddie Hearn and Frank Smith since Saturday though, it seems like they’re already pushing for a Dubois rematch. I don’t like it. Just sounds like bad news for AJ but, of course, the Matchroom boys are looking at that 98K attendance figure at Wembley and wanting to keep milking that cash cow until it’s completely dry. Personally I’d like to see AJ call it a day. He’s had his run, he did big things for British and Heavyweight boxing and brought a lot of new eyes to the sport. He went as high as his skills would allow him to go and made a shitload of money but it’s all diminishing returns from here. At 35+, he’s never gonna beat Usyk or Fury and a Dubois rematch probably ends just as badly, or worse, for him. Hearn’s running with the ‘he was fine until he got caught at the end of the first round, he never fully recovered’ line. I obviously agree there’s some truth to that but Dubois was backing him up with the jab and winning that first round comfortably before that big shot at the end of the round. Yeah I’d like to see Joshua hang ‘em up. Problem is, I’m almost 100% sure he won’t but all the options for him carrying on are roads to another bad ending. Edited Tuesday at 11:36 AM by wandshogun09 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-d-d-dAz Posted Tuesday at 11:39 AM Share Posted Tuesday at 11:39 AM 2 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said: That’s the problem. Even if you give an AJ or Wilder a bit of a knock-over job next, it’s not gonna end there. Chances are they win easily and then convince themselves they’re ‘back’ and all that. And fans and media will pump them up and encourage it. After AJ’s few wins before this Dubois fight, the amount of people I saw and heard talking like it was proof he was at his best again now was mad. For years the overriding majority opinion I saw was that, if Fury and Joshua fought, Fury would beat him. After AJ knocked out Ngannou though, I started seeing ‘AJ smokes Fury’ takes for the first time in years. It’s a fickle sport. I love Ngannou but that wasn’t the career resurgent win many made it out to be. If AJ knocked out a relatively easy opponent next, I’ve got no doubt that kind of talk would start up again and that only leads to more fights against top level guys and more of what we saw on Saturday night. I just don’t think AJ’s got it at this level anymore. He’s 35 soon and he’s had a great career but Father Time is undefeated and I think, even if AJ didn’t have his flaws, his time would be just about up anyway now. From bits I’ve seen from Eddie Hearn and Frank Smith since Saturday though, it seems like they’re already pushing for a Dubois rematch. I don’t like it. Just sounds like bad news for AJ but, of course, the Matchroom boys are looking at that 98K attendance figure at Wembley and wanting to keep milking that cash cow until it’s completely dry. Personally I’d like to see AJ call it a day. He’s had his run, he did big things for British and Heavyweight boxing and brought a lot of new eyes to the sport. He went as high as his skills would allow him to go and made a shitload of money but it’s all diminishing returns from here. At 35+, he’s never gonna beat Usyk or Fury and a Dubois rematch probably ends just as badly, or worse, for him. Hearn’s running with the ‘he was fine until he got caught at the end of the first round, he never fully recovered’ line. I obviously agree there’s some truth to that but Dubois was backing him up with the jab and winning that first round comfortably before that big shot at the end of the round. Yeah I’d like to see Joshua hang ‘em up. Problem is, I’m almost 100% sure he won’t but all the options for him carrying on are roads to another bad ending. The problem with Hearn's line is, what hrs actually saying is 'he was fine until he got hit properly for the first time'... which is a rubbish argument if you think about it too long. I agree with everything you've said. He should call it a day. If all he wants is a goodbye there's ways of doing that, but you're right that they're never self aware enough to see a pushover for what it is. In general though, there's never any point trying to fight the slide. The slide always wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooner Posted Wednesday at 11:59 AM Share Posted Wednesday at 11:59 AM We have this banger coming up on Saturday, October 12. Artur Beterbiev vs. Dmitry Bivol - for IBF, IBO, WBC, WBA and WBO light heavyweight titles Jai Opetaia vs. Jack Massey - for IBF cruiserweight title Fabio Wardley vs. Frazer Clarke Chris Eubank Jr. vs. Kamil Szeremeta - for IBO middleweight title Skye Nicolson vs. Raven Chapman - for WBC featherweight title Ben Whittaker vs. Liam Cameron Mohammaed Alakel vs. Jesus Gonzalez The main event is one of the most anticipated fights of the year. The two best fighters at 175lbs, both undefeated fighting for the undisputed light heavyweight championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted Wednesday at 01:41 PM Paid Members Share Posted Wednesday at 01:41 PM Wow, Mohammed versus Jesus? Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted Wednesday at 01:51 PM Author Paid Members Share Posted Wednesday at 01:51 PM 1 hour ago, Gooner said: We have this banger coming up on Saturday, October 12. Artur Beterbiev vs. Dmitry Bivol - for IBF, IBO, WBC, WBA and WBO light heavyweight titles Jai Opetaia vs. Jack Massey - for IBF cruiserweight title Fabio Wardley vs. Frazer Clarke Chris Eubank Jr. vs. Kamil Szeremeta - for IBO middleweight title Skye Nicolson vs. Raven Chapman - for WBC featherweight title Ben Whittaker vs. Liam Cameron Mohammaed Alakel vs. Jesus Gonzalez The main event is one of the most anticipated fights of the year. The two best fighters at 175lbs, both undefeated fighting for the undisputed light heavyweight championship. Yeah, loving that one! Few lopsided bouts down the card but some weird shit be happening on these Riyadh Season cards so you never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted Wednesday at 02:01 PM Paid Members Share Posted Wednesday at 02:01 PM Beterbiev vs Bivol is a monster fight. One of the best fights that could’ve been made this year. Glad it’s finally happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Lion_of_the_Midlands Posted Wednesday at 02:25 PM Paid Members Share Posted Wednesday at 02:25 PM 2 hours ago, Gooner said: IBO middleweight title Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted Wednesday at 03:19 PM Paid Members Share Posted Wednesday at 03:19 PM (edited) These Riyadh Season trailers make me laugh. They’re well produced but if you didn’t know better you wouldn’t even know they’re promoting a boxing match.  Edited Wednesday at 03:20 PM by wandshogun09 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Lion_of_the_Midlands Posted Wednesday at 03:43 PM Paid Members Share Posted Wednesday at 03:43 PM Eubank making friends as always. If I was cynical I'd say this was calculated to make sure fights he doesn't want to take can't be made.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooner Posted Wednesday at 07:00 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 07:00 PM Highlights from Saturday night's PPV on TNT Sports 2 tonight from 22:15 for anyone who didn't manage to watch or for anyone who wants to watch again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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