Babyface/Heel turns that you never "bought"

[garynysmon]

I was reading something recently about Shawn Michaels' reticence to turn babyface after Wrestlemania 11 and it reminded me of how I never 'got' his 1995 face run as a 10/11 year old kid.

I think I must have missed the episode of Raw where he gave Sid the "night off" and got powerbombed 100 times or something, but I can remember him being sold as this massively popular "good guy" all of a sudden and just unable to fathom how this poncy twat was suddenly being cheered, sparking off the worst and terribly aged merchandise that's ever been produced.

It was honestly several months until I finally bought into it to any degree and grudgingly went along with the whole thing while Vince was verbally wanking him off (was still gutted when he beat Bret at WM12 though... the twat).

But Tatanka in 1994 is my ultimate mecca.

Tatanka was my favourite wrestler through 1993 and I genuinely cried when he got screwed over by Ludvig Borga/Yokozuna and the undefeated streak was broken.

I was never one to cheer heels or anything, so his Summerslam heel turn against Lex just left me in a massive quandry. I remember spending several months, as he slid down and down the card into mediocrity and being accompanied to the ring by DiBiase, just refusing to sell the fact that he was a heel.

It wasn't that I wanted to cheer a heel Tatanka, I just refused to acknowledge it.

 

Edited July 2, 2020 by garynysmon

[StrongStyle]

Shawn Michaels at any given point could be the answer here. WWE-approved content will always focus on Michaels post-2002 and how he was Mr. WrestleMania etc. I imagine that because he is, ostensibly, embarrassed by his earlier body of work as it is not in keeping with his 'born again' image.

The reality is that Michaels is probably the most natural heel in the history of wrestling. Like you say, he was a detestable, smug, annoying and deeply unpleasant twat whose face you would never tire of punching. It isn't a coincidence that he seamlessly slotted into being a heel again in 2005 for his feud with Hogan: it is in-built to his DNA and I don't think I ever properly bought him as a face outside of being a 'super worker'. His heel run against Hogan was probably the best character work of his 'born again' career.

[Wrasslin]

Lex Luger - another obvious one. One week he's The Narcissist who's cheating to win matches with a metal plate in his arm (love shit like that, always give me D'Lo in the chest protector).  Then all of a sudden he's Mr America and on the bus. Such a punchable face - genuinely hated him. Echoing the Tatanka love - he was my boy and believed him when he said Lex was crooked.

 

[garynysmon]

10 minutes ago, Wrasslin said:

Lex Luger - another obvious one. One week he's The Narcissist who's cheating to win matches with a metal plate in his arm (love shit like that, always give me D'Lo in the chest protector).  Then all of a sudden he's Mr America and on the bus. Such a punchable face - genuinely hated him. Echoing the Tatanka love - he was my boy and believed him when he said Lex was crooked.

 

Yes! Until I finally got internet access, for years I genuinely thought I'd missed an episode or something as suddenly landing on the USS intrepid with a stars and stripes pullover and being cheered like the second coming of Hulk Hogan just made no sense to me.

[gmoney]

Never understood HBK's Mr Wrestlemania tag. Seems to be based off of the ladder match, and the Iron Man match (which was crap). 

WM 8 - vs Tito Santana - alright.

WM 9 - Tatanka - again, alright

WM 10 - Razor - Fair enough, this is great

WM 11 - Diesel - Fucking boring. 

WM 12 - Bret Fucking boring 

WM 13 - absent

WM 14 - Steve Austin - a disappointment, though obviously he was injured. 

He did have some belters on his return, but he'd already "earned" the nickname by then I believe. 

[Carbomb]

I never got the "Mr Wrestlemania" tag either, not just because of the match quality, but also because that's clearly Hogan - WM wouldn't be what it is today without him headlining them originally.

[The Maestro]

When did Michaels start getting called "Mr Wrestlemania"? I felt like I only first noticed it some time around the mid 00s, possibly in the build up to his match with Kurt Angle at 21. His back catalogue is pretty good to be fair, even though I love how WWE like to make the Iron Match out as a classic whilst most fans find it as dull as dish water.

 

Anyways, back to the topic. The Miz had a terrible run as one with Ric Flair as his manager/mentor back in 2013. It just didn't feel right at all and I couldn't get into it. There was also a spell around the earlier part of the noughties where Edge turned babyface onto just give up and turn heel again a week or two later.

[Michael_3165]

Owen Harts supposed face turn on his return post Montreal. Just because he didn't like Michaels and DX. They didn't fully turn him and he was stuck in this middle ground. 

Miss Elizabeth's heel shtick in WCW was so phoney. I didn't but her being this bitch that spent all of Macho's money w Flair. She was always too sweet to be a bitch like that. 

 

[SuperBacon]

12 minutes ago, Michael_3165 said:

Owen Harts supposed face turn on his return post Montreal.

Nah, him running in and attacking Michaels at the end of that IYH was utterly thrilling.

This 12 year old mark was fully into it being real.

[Michael_3165]

23 minutes ago, SuperBacon said:

Nah, him running in and attacking Michaels at the end of that IYH was utterly thrilling.

This 12 year old mark was fully into it being real.

No it was great but the follow up was poor and he only really turned face because he hated shawn. Nothing else screamed face at all. 

[JakeRobertsParoleOfficer]

Sting - going heel in Wcw for all of 2 minutes

Goldberg - see above 

2 baby faces you have to cheer! Never bought either them as a bad guy

The other one tbat immediately comes to my mind was Perfect in 93. I just never bought him as a good guy, having spent spent the previous 3 years loving his heel persona. 

Angle when 

[wandshogun09]

First one that sprung to mind for some reason was Greg Valentine’s short babyface run in the WWF in 1991. Just nothing about laugh a minute Greg felt babyface. Ever.

This one never actually happened but Rick Rude seemed to be turning babyface in WCW just before the back injury took him out in the spring of 94;

I actually think I would’ve bought into it based on this clip. Rude as a good guy would be so weird after years of seeing him being the arrogant twat. But I’d love to have seen how the Rude vs Vader thing would’ve played out. Realistically though, it wouldn’t have really gone anywhere anyway given the timeframe. I think Bischoff said on the podcast once that Rude badly wanted the top face spot but with Hogan just about to come in and Sting still knocking about, Rude wouldn’t have got above #3 babyface behind those two at best. Then you had Savage coming in later in the year. It just wouldn’t have worked. 

[Frankie Crisp]

That Big Show one. Still can’t believe they did it.

[The Cutting Edge]

Seth Rollins face turn in 2016 was weak and damaged him for a few months.

He returned from knee injury and got a huge face reaction but they decided to go with him as Authority heel despite the there not really being one at that point.

When they did go with him as a face due to Balor injury I assume, Triple H turns on him out of nowhere thus putting him as a face but without doing anything "good".

They could've had a slow burn story of Seth going face but Trips/Steph being pally with him until HE decides to fuck them off and "be his own man" etc leading to the mania match.

He got momentum eventually but it shouldn't have been that hard.

[Mikeymike83]

10 hours ago, Michael_3165 said:

No it was great but the follow up was poor and he only really turned face because he hated shawn. Nothing else screamed face at all. 

Hating Shawn at the time, and storyline avenging his brother (and brother-in-laws) screwing... ooo-er! His interview in ring with Vince, the next night on RAW I believe, was damn good too. The Hart's were gaining traction before Montreal again, getting a smattering of cheers amongst mostly boos mind you. DX were positioned as the ultimate dicks, so by proxy the Foundation started receiving favour on US soil again.

For me, the turn was fine. Logical to an extent. Fighting for his family values as someone who had his family broken up by (storyline) DX. His run (admittedly very short) up to the Rumble had him cheered very favourably.

The real problem for me, is that Owen was somehow becoming a Poundland Steve Austin. His run ins, chaotic nature, a swear word or two thrown in to promos. When you know Austin is going over at WrestleMania XIV opposite DX it makes little sense to have Owen 3:16 lite further down the card. Taking a little shine away from Austin 3:16, the real bad ass of the burgeoning, attitude era WWF.

For Owen,  the icing on the cake was being put into a programme with Hunter over the European title. As a more friendlier version of the weasel like 'King of Hart's' shift in gimmick brought him back down to earth once more. In another timeline, I sincerely believe Owen could have gone all the way with that post Survivor Series gimmick. However, opposite the real deal of Stone Cold... wrong time and wrong place for the Rocket.

 

On another note, HBK was only referred to as Mr. WrestleMania in the run up to 21 with Kurt (as mentioned above), I'm sure of. At the least, he definitely wasn't called that in his first run.