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UFC Fight Island: Whittaker vs Till - Jul 25 šŸ‡¦šŸ‡Ŗ šŸ


wandshogun09

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Saturday 25th July. Fight Island. Yas Island. Abu Dhabi. Look at this lot...

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ESPN/ESPN+Ā MAIN CARD
Robert Whittaker vs Darren TillĀ 

Shogun Rua vs Antonio Rogerio NogueiraĀ 

Fabricio Werdum vs Alexander GustafssonĀ 

Carla Esparza vs Marina Rodriguez

Paul Craig vs Gadzhimurad Antigulov

Alex Oliveira vs Peter Sobotta

Khamzat Chimaev vs Rhys McKeeĀ 

ESPN+/FIGHT PASS PRELIMS
Francisco Trinaldo vs Jai HerbertĀ 

Nicolas Dalby vs Jesse Ronson

Jake Collier vs Tom Aspinall

Movsar Evloev vs Mike Grundy

Tanner BoserĀ vs Raphael Pessoa

Bethe Correia vs Pannie KianzadĀ 

Ramazan Emeev vs Niklas StolzeĀ 

Nathaniel Wood vs John CastanedaĀ 

Ā 

I love this. Canā€™t knock that card, can you? One of the best Fight Nights in years that I can remember. Shogun vs Nogueira and Werdum vs Gustafsson couldā€™ve easily headlined Fight Nights inĀ their own right or been used to beef up a PPV main card. At this point, yeah, Iā€™ll let that Eye vs Calvillo bollocks slide. July is more than making up for that mess.Ā 

Ā 

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Robert Whittaker vs Darren Till.Ā Great main event. I almost donā€™t want to get too hyped for it though given Whittakerā€™s track record of injuries and medical conditions taking him out of fights. We last saw him in October, losing the Middleweight strap to Israel Adesanya in Melbourne. Since then he was linked to a fight with Jared Cannonier at UFC 248 in March but ended up withdrawing for personal reasons. There was all sorts of talk at the time about his daughter needing a bone marrow transplant and stuff. Whittaker has since come out and said it was nothing like that but he was dealing with some mental health issues and needed to step away from fighting for a bit. Obviously thatā€™s enough but I still think there was more to it. Dana even got a bit choked up talking about Whittaker and how ā€œselflessā€ he was. Itā€™s none of our business but, whatever was going on, hopefully Whittaker is doing good now. Thereā€™s no questioning his heart and toughness. The man went a total of 10 rounds with Yoel Romero, for fuckā€™s sake. 50 minutes locked in a cage with Yoel Romero! Hopefully he can stay healthy now and regain some of that momentum. Tillā€™s hoping to continue to build on his fresh start at 185. He had a nightmare late 2018/early 2019 with those losses to Woodley and Masvidal, took him right out of the title mix at 170 for the foreseeable future. Made his Middleweight debut in November at MSG and beat Kelvin Gastelum on points.

And here we are. This has actually been kind of brewing since early this year when Till was trying to insert himself into the Whittaker vs Cannonier thing. Till just started stalking Whittaker on social media and randomly popping up on almost anything he posted.

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One of the most unusual beginnings of a fight build ever. Till on social media in general is odd. His current thing seems to be terrorising Mike Perry and photoshopping his own face onto different fighters. This is how his Twitter is looking these days...

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Some of it is actually amusing in a childish way but itā€™s been weird. He seems to be pissing about on Twitter, photoshop and in Mike Perryā€™s headĀ 24/7Ā these days. So much that Iā€™m starting to think heā€™s forgot that heā€™s fighting Bobby Knuckles in a few weeks. Not sure what to think about this fight. Iā€™m definitely looking forward to it but I donā€™t really have an idea how I see it playing out. Iā€™d probably have picked Whittaker fairly easily a year ago but with his time out and going through personal shit, who knows where heā€™s at with that now? And the jury is kind of out on Till at 185. It might actually be a much better fit for him because that cut to 170 mustā€™ve been a cunt. His performance against Gastelum was kind of conservative but I thought he looked good considering it was his MW debut and who he was in with. Definitely a confidence booster. But judging by how heā€™s carried on the last few months, I think it mightā€™ve inflated his confidence a bit TOO much. Itā€™s almost a shame weā€™re not able to have the full on media and press conferences because these two are so polar opposite in personality that it probably wouldā€™ve been quite an entertaining buildup. Team Whittaker for me. I donā€™t care about the ā€˜tit starsā€™ (ColinBollocks ā„¢ļø) or that heā€™s supposedly ā€˜boringā€™. I hope he irons Till out.

Ā 

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ShogunĀ Rua vs Antonio Rogerio Nogueira 3Ā isĀ ***WANDā€™S ONE TO WATCH***Ā and thatĀ shouldnā€™t be a surprise to anyone.Ā I donā€™t care that itā€™sĀ 2020 and theyā€™re all battered and haggard. Itā€™s Shogun vs Little Nog. This all started 15 years ago when the two met in the Quarterfinals of the 2005 Pride Grand Prix.

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June 26th 2005. Saitama, Japan.

To this day, one of my favourite fights. Easily in the Top 5 Pride fights ever as well. 2005 was the year The Ultimate Fighter was born and Forrest Griffin vs Stephan Bonnar was talked about as the ā€˜BEST FIGHT OF ALL TIMEā€™ forever but it wasnā€™t even the best fight of 2005. Shogun vs Nog pissed all over it. Just a tremendous back and forth war. I honestly think they took the 205 division to another level that night. Shogun got the nod butĀ I wouldnā€™t have been upset if they gave it to Nogueira. It was one of those fights. An all time classic.

Fast forward a decadeĀ and they would meet again. This time in the UFC.

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August 1st 2015. Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.

And once again, Shogun won a competitive decision. Wasnā€™t a patch onĀ the first one but it was still a pretty good fight. By this point though, theyā€™d both been through the ringer of hard battles and injuries andĀ both had clocked a lot of miles in the 10Ā years since the first match.Ā 

Theyā€™ve both fought sporadically since that second clash. Shogunā€™s fought 5 times and gone 3-1-1. Heā€™s so far gone from his prime. People who play that down obviously never saw him at his peak. But in fairness, he still seems to get the job done for the most part despite having no knees. Heā€™s just done as a top guy. Stick him in against other fading legends or mid level fighters and heā€™ll still knock a lot of them dead. Nogā€™s looked the worse of the two to me. Heā€™s gone 2-2 since that last Shogun fight and he just looks like heā€™s moving in quicksand half the time. Heā€™s coming off a KO loss to Ryan Spann last May. He just turned 44 years old, itā€™s the last fight on his contract and heā€™s confirmed that heā€™s retiring after this.

ā€œThis will probably be the last fight of my career, my farewell fight. So being able to have this rematch with Shogun is both challenging and motivating. I thank Shogun for giving me this opportunity. Iā€™m sure we will put on a great fight again. Itā€™s been a great career.ā€ - Antonio Rogerio Nogueira

When this fight was first reported a few months ago (originally for UFC 250), I was a bit cold towards it. I thought it was pointless with Shogun already leading 2-0 and I felt like trotting them out there again would just kind of diminish the memory of the first fight. But with the story of it being Nogā€™s retirement match, Iā€™ve come around to it and itā€™s a fitting way for him to go out. Iā€™d much rather this be his farewell than seeing him murdered by a Walker or Rakic or some other young beast. This is the way to do it. Let him go out against the guy he had his best fight with. Hopefully the retirement sticks regardless of the result here. At 44, I canā€™t see him getting a better chance to leave his gloves on the canvas than this.

Ā 

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FabrĆ­cio Werdum vs Alexander Gustafsson.Ā I donā€™t think anyone even thought about this one. A proper fight you thought youā€™d never see. This wouldā€™ve been a bit of a dream match back in 2015 when Werdum was throttling Cain and Gus was taking Cormier to the limit. Itā€™s not quite the same thing in 2020 but itā€™s still a very interesting fight for different reasons. Werdumā€™s had a dodgy few years since losing the belt to Stipe. He went 3-2 in his next few fights then got himself suspended by USADA. He finally returned at UFC 249 in May, looking all sluggish and doughy, and dropped a decision to Alexey Oleynik. It was a weirdly entertaining fight though, in a way only Heavyweight fights can be. I really enjoyed it. Werdum definitely looked a bit rusty and considering he turns 43 a few days after this fight, thatā€™s to be expected. But if heā€™s got one last run in him, heā€™s going to have to step it up here. Gustafsson is an even more intriguing case. I think everyone was a bit taken aback when he announced his retirement last June after the Anthony Smith loss. He was only 32 years old and still thought of as a top contender. I donā€™t know what to expect out of him here. Especially with him moving up to Heavyweight. He didnā€™t always look amazing physically at 205, so I wonder how heā€™ll look at Heavyweight. No doubt he has the height and range and I think his speed and movement could serve him well against the big lugs at HW. But I donā€™t know. I just canā€™t picture it.

Ā 

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Carla Esparza vs Marina RodriguezĀ just got moved to this card. It was meant to go down on the Kattar vs Ige undercard on July 15th but one of Esparzaā€™s cornermen tested positive for COVID so they yanked the fight and postponed it a couple of weeks. Itā€™s an OK fight but I struggle to get up for Esparza fights. Generally, anything sheā€™s involved with, I just feel apathy towards. I canā€™t knock her success. Sheā€™s had a pretty solid career. She was the first ever Strawweight champ in both Invicta and the UFC, won TUF, has wins over the likes of Rose Namajunas, Michelle Waterson, Cynthia Calvillo etc. She just bores me shitless most of the time. She did have an unexpected corker with Alexa Grasso on the MexicoĀ card in September but I put that more down to Grasso being a little whirlwind and forcing the action. Needless to say, Iā€™m rooting for Rodriguez here. Havenā€™t seen too much of her but sheā€™s looked decent in the footage I have watched. Sheā€™s Brazilian, 33 years old, unbeaten at 12-0-2 and has UFC wins over Tecia Torres and Jessica Aguilar.

Ā 

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Paul Craig vs Gadzhimurad Antigulov. Another late addition. OK fight. Always quite enjoyed watching Craig. Seems a goodĀ guy and his ability to pull submissions out from the very brink of defeat makes him exciting to watch. Seriously, his last second sub against Ankalaev on one of the London showsĀ a while back still amazes me. He was losing the whole fight and pulled a triangle off and got the tap at 4:59 of the third. Ridiculous. Heā€™s had his setbacks though andĀ he comes into this one off a split draw against Shogun in November. Antigulov is a Russian roughhouse with a solid 20-6 record. 19 of his 20 wins came inside the distance. Hasnā€™t beat anyone that good but heā€™s always game and dangerous. Heā€™s hit a slump of late though, heā€™s been stopped early by IonĀ Cutelaba and Michal Oleksiejczuk in his last 2 outings. So Craig could be catching him at aĀ good time here.

Ā 

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Alex Oliveira vs Peter Sobotta will probably be decent enough. Iā€™ve never warmed to Cowboy Oliveira, heā€™s always seemed a bit of a dick, but youā€™ll very rarely see a dull fight out of him. Iā€™ll give him that. Never going to be a contender but heā€™s perfect for a spot like this, where they just chuck him in the middle of the card in a fun scrap. He beat Max Griffin last time out, snapping a 3 fight losing streak. Sobotta is still only 33 but it seems like heā€™s been knocking about forever. Heā€™s had a couple of UFC stints and a bunch of layoffs so I guess thatā€™s whatā€™s dragged it out. Decent fighter with wins over Ben Saunders and Nicolas Dalby. He got beat by Leon Edwards back in 2018 and has been out of action ever since for whatever reason. He pulled out of a couple of fights last year with injuries. If he makes it to the cage this time, Iā€™d expect Oliveira to come out on top.

Ā 

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Khamzat Chimaev vs Rhys McKee opens up the main card. Last minute addition. Of course, Chimaev just made his UFC debut on the Kattar vs Ige undercard on July 15th. Anyone who saw that will know why the UFC canā€™t wait to get him back in there. He pissed right through John Phillips with ease and is already being hailed as the second coming of Khabib. Way early forĀ that kind of talk for me but thereā€™s no question he looks a beast so far. Heā€™s 7-0 now with 7 finishes. Trains at Allstars in Sweden with Gustafsson etc. This is him back in his division as well now. He took the Phillips fight on short noticeĀ at 185 but he wasĀ a Welterweight before that. This is back at 170. McKee just got the news that heā€™s in the UFC. What a welcome theyā€™re giving him with Chimaev, eh? Heā€™s Irish, 10-2-1 with all his wins coming inside the distance, former BAMMA Lightweight champ. Solid signing but fuck me, 6 days notice to fight this Khamzat bastard?Ā Nah, youā€™re alright.

Ā 

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Francisco Trinaldo vs Jai Herbert just got added. Iā€™ll be checking this one out. Itā€™s Herbertā€™s UFC debut. Heā€™s from Wolverhampton, 10-1 with 8 knockouts and won the vacant Cage Warriors Lightweight belt last year. Trains with Leon and Fabian Edwards. He was supposed to debut on that London card in March against Marc Diakiese but obviously that one went down the shitter. Iā€™ve never actually seen him fight but Iā€™ve heard his name around the Midlands, he looks decent from the little clips Iā€™ve seen. Heā€™s not exactly getting the welcome mat rolled out though. Trinaldo has never been a guy whoā€™s been in the contender mix but heā€™s been a solid test for many a fighter on the way up the ladder. Heā€™s got a bit of an underrated resume actually. Heā€™s 25-7 and over the years heā€™s racked up wins over the likes of Jim Miller, Paul Felder, Ross Pearson, Yancy Medeiros and Evan Dunham. Heā€™s 41 years old now so heā€™s not quite as effective a gatekeeper as he once was. But heā€™s still looking decent and he beat John Makdessi and Bobby Green in his last couple of fights. Should give us an idea what Herbertā€™s got because Trinaldo doesnā€™t come to play.

Ā 

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Nicolas Dalby vs Jesse Ronson. AnotherĀ card change. It wasĀ supposed to be Dalby vs Danny Roberts. A fight that had already been rescheduled twiceĀ after being booked originally for the London card in March thatĀ got cancelled. Then it got put on this card. And itā€™s off again. Shame, I was well up for that. This could still be alright but itā€™s not the same for me.Ā Dalby got back in the UFC last year after his bloodbath with Ross Houston in Cage Warriors gained him some attention. He returned to the Octagon in September, on home soil in Copenhagen, and beat Alex Oliveira. Heā€™s a good fighter. He also took Darren Till to a draw in a great fight back in 2015. Ronson returns to the UFC after a 6 year absence. It didnā€™t go well last time, he went 0-3 in the Octagon. He did take Kevin Lee to a split decision during that run though. After the UFC let him go in 2014, he went away and regrouped. Heā€™s gone 8-5 since the UFC release,Ā mostly fighting on the Canadian circuit where he won the Welterweight and Lightweight titles in the TKO promotion.Ā Heā€™s 21-10 overall now. I wouldnā€™t expect Dalby to lose this one but stranger things have happened. Especially with late fill-ins.

Ā 

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Jake Collier vs Tom AspinallĀ is another fight that was originally booked for that London show. Canā€™t say Iā€™m familiar with either man myself. Collier has been inactive since 2017. Heā€™s 11-4 and, apparently, heā€™s fought in the UFC six times. Six! I donā€™t recall ever seeing him. If I did then he canā€™t have left much of an impression. Aspinall is from Wigan and is making his UFC debut. 7-2, all finishes. Thatā€™s all Iā€™ve got. Hey, itā€™s low level HeavyweightĀ MMA. Itā€™s either going to be so bad itā€™s perversely entertaining or itā€™s just going to be pure, unredeemable shite. There isnā€™t much grey area when it comes to the Heavies. Just a big brown one.

Ā 

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Movsar Evloev vs Mike Grundy is one of the standouts on this card for me. Pretty sure this was scheduled at some point last year but never ended up happening for whatever reason. Iā€™ve only seen a handful of both guysā€™ fights but it was enough that I want to see more. Evloev is Russian, 26 with a perfect record of 12-0 with 7 finishes. 2-0 so far in the UFC. Beat Enrique Barzola last time out. Seem to remember him looking a bit of a beast grappler. And Grundy is no pushover there himself. He was an amateur wrestler out of Wigan who got bronze at the Commonwealth Games in 2014. In MMA heā€™s 12-1 and on a 9 fight win streak. He made his UFC debut in March 2019 and stopped Nad Narimani in a really good fight where he had to weather a storm and got the TKO in the second round. Really looking forward to seeing this. Hopefully they grapple a lot because that could be good shit. If it becomes a dogfight then fuck knows.

Ā 

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Tanner Boser vs Raphael Pessoa.Ā More Heavyweight goodness. I kind of like this one actually. Boserā€™s jumped in on late notice after Justin Tafa dropped out. Heā€™s fresh off a quick stoppage win over Philipe Lins on the Poirier vs Hooker card the other week. Heā€™s 18-6-1 overall.Ā Pessoa is Brazilian, 31 years old, 10-1 with 7 finishes. His only loss so far is to Ciryl Gane. These two most likely arenā€™t really going anywhere in the division but it should be fun however long it goes and probably ends with a bang either way.Ā 

Ā 

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Bethe Correia vs Pannie Kianzad.Ā No fucks given really, are there? I was actually a tad surprised Correia is still on the roster, to be honest. Sheā€™s been cack forever. Sheā€™s gone 2-3-1 since Ronda Rousey squashed her in 2015. Sheā€™s coming off a ā€˜bigā€™ win over Sijara Eubanks now so I guess weā€™re stuck with her for a little while longer yet. Sheā€™s 37 now and doesnā€™t seem to be improving at all. In fact, sheā€™s regressed. But sheā€™ll probably be shitting up the prelims for a couple more years yet. Kianzad is Iranian/Swedish, 28 years old with a 12-5 record. She was also a TUF finalist and former Cage Warriors champ. Hadnā€™t noticed before but sheā€™s a bit of a cutie as well. Not the best in the cage, although sheā€™s not as bad as Correira. I donā€™t think. I guess weā€™re about to find out.

Ā 

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Ramazan Emeev vs Niklas Stolze.Ā Little bit ofĀ a comedownĀ for me this. It was supposed to be Emeev against Shavkat Rakhmonov and I was really looking forward to seeing Rakhmonovā€™s debut. But heā€™s out and weā€™re going to have to wait a bit longer for that. Stolze has been drafted in as his replacement and heā€™s also making his UFC debut. Heā€™s German, 27 years old with a record of 12-3 with 9 finishes. He hasĀ trained at SBG in Ireland in the past, not sure if he does anymore. Doesnā€™t sound a bad signing, just disappointed Rakhmonovā€™s out. Emeev isĀ 33 years old, 18-4 and had won 7 straight before losing to Rocco Martin in November. Heā€™s nothing amazing but heā€™s a tough journeyman kind of fighter who should theoretically be able to ask questions of a less experienced opponent.

Ā 

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Nathaniel Wood vs John Castaneda.Ā Was pretty gutted about this actually. Wood vs Umar Nurmagomedov was the original fight but, understandably, Umar pulled out when Khabibā€™s dad Abdulmanap died. In all honesty, the change of opponent is actuallyĀ probably better for Wood. Heā€™s coming off a disaster in February where he got stopped by John Dodson. Trying to rebound against an undefeatedĀ stud prospect in Nurmagomedov, while ballsy,Ā mightnā€™t have been the best move. Woodā€™sĀ 27 years old, from London, 16-4 record, former Cage Warriors Bantamweight champion. Heā€™dĀ won 8 in a row before that Dodson lossĀ and finished all 8 opponents. Despite the loss to Dodson, I feel like Wood probably has the brightest future out of all the UK fighters coming up through the ranks. But heā€™s got to get back on track here. Castaneda, nicknamed ā€˜Sexi Mexiā€™, is 17-4 with 12 finishes and has most recently fought in the Combate AmericasĀ promotion. Donā€™t know much about himĀ other than that but from the little clips Iā€™ve seen on Twitter, he looks like your typical Mexican scrapper so this could be pretty wild however long it lasts.

Ā 

Thatā€™s some card, isnā€™t it? I think itā€™s being overlooked because itā€™s getting lost in all these back-to-back cards the UFC have been banging out lately. But this is on another level for me when it comes to Fight Nights. Great main event, legends trilogy bout and Nogā€™s farewell in the co-main, Gusā€™ debut at Heavyweight. Then youā€™ve got some real potential barnburners like Nurmagomedov vs Wood and Dalby vs Roberts. Evloev andĀ Grundy could put onĀ a grappling clinic. The Rakhmonov debut.Ā There really is a bit of everything on this one.

Rob?

ROB?

Edited by wandshogun09
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Can't wait for this one! Loaded card for a Fight Night as you say Wand. No prizes for guessing who I'm backing in the main event.

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An absolute gent and a monster in the cage when he's healthy. The fight withĀ Adesanya- I think- was Rob being a bit too eager to get a big finish, he almost Garbrandt-ed it with his aggression. Compare that to how he fought against Brunson and Jacare, where he was calculated and found his openings, and yeah. I just really want Rob to bounce back from those Romero fights, he got through them but no doubt the Soldier of God claimed a little bit of his soul in those 10 rounds.

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The Adesanya fight couldā€™ve been being talked about a lot differently today if not for spilt seconds andĀ fractions of inches. It was a great performance from Izzy no doubt, but he was playing a dangerous game here. Leaning back, chin up, hands down...

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Obviously it paid off that night. But just imagine if Whittaker wouldā€™ve clipped him on the chinĀ with one of those shots and knocked him out? This moment would be remembered as Adesanyaā€™s ā€˜Silva vs Weidmanā€™Ā moment rather than a career defining victory.Ā As great as Adesanya is, itā€™sĀ why I think heā€™ll get caught sooner ratherĀ than later. I donā€™t think heā€™ll have as long a run as Anderson did. Partly because the Middleweight division is stronger now than it was back then but alsoĀ I donā€™t think his defence/chin is as good as Andersonā€™s was in his prime. Itā€™s not a massive problem because his timing and reflexes often make up for it. But I donā€™t get that feeling of invincibility watching him like I did with The Spider in his heyday. Heā€™s more susceptible to getting pulled into a firefight. The Gastelum fight being the prime example but even that exchange with Whittaker there. You rarely saw Anderson trade like that and leave things to chance. He was more of a sniper. It works for Izzy thoughĀ and makes him exciting to watch. WhenĀ heā€™s not in there with Yoel anyway.Ā 

All that aside, I really hope he clobbers Till. Another loss here wonā€™t look goodĀ at all for Whittaker and Tillā€™s a nob soĀ itā€™dĀ be doubly crap.Ā 

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Got a feeling Till beats Whitaker, just favour him against a very conventional striker like Whitaker. Gotta wonder what that Adesanya loss has taken out of Whitaker too, hes been on the end of some hefty punishment the last couple of years.

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3 hours ago, wandshogun09 said:

Partly because the Middleweight division is stronger now than it was back then but alsoĀ I donā€™t think his defence/chin is as good as Andersonā€™s was in his prime. Itā€™s not a massive problem because his timing and reflexes often make up for it. But I donā€™t get that feeling of invincibility watching him like I did with The Spider in his heyday. Heā€™s more susceptible to getting pulled into a firefight. The Gastelum fight being the prime example but even that exchange with Whittaker there. You rarely saw Anderson trade like that and leave things to chance.Ā 

I think that's mostly because striking and gameplanningĀ during Anderson's era wasĀ weak compared to today.Ā 

Anderson didn't have to trade or leadĀ because his opponents usuallyĀ played into his game. They would usuallyĀ extend themselves trying to land strikes, and in the process, makeĀ themselvesĀ vulnerable toĀ Anderson's counter strikes. It was against aggressive, yet relatively unskilled strikers, that Anderson shined brightestĀ (see his bouts against Leben and Griffin forĀ examples).Ā 

Later on,Ā Weidman and Bisping foundĀ out ways to neutraliseĀ with Anderson's counter game (feints, etc). Left with few other options, Anderson was forced to lead, and we found out that he wasn't a particularly goodĀ boxer on the front foot. Bisping in particular found it quite easy to tag Anderson when the latter marchedĀ forward.Ā 

Anderson will be remembered as a legend (rightfully so), butĀ was heĀ a better fighter in his primeĀ than say Whittaker or Adesanya are today? In my view, no. The game, or more specifically the middleweight division, has progressed quite a bit in the past decadeĀ or so.Ā 

Edited by jimufctna24
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That and also it just wasnā€™t Andersonā€™s style to come forward and blast away like Wanderlei or Shogun at their pomp. His destruction of Leben was an exception to the rule because he knew he could get away with it due to Leben swinging from his shins. You couldā€™ve parked a car between Lebenā€™s non-existent defensive guard his arms were so wide apart coming in. Anderson was always more of a counter striker. Even that Forrest Griffin annihilation, he mostly hung back and just let Griffin plod intoĀ his own demise. The only other high profile fight where Iā€™d say Anderson was a full on come forward striker was the first Rich Franklin fight. But Iā€™m guessing thatā€™s because he mustā€™ve seen a weakness in Franklinā€™s Thai clinch defence and wanted to immediately close the distance and establish his dominance there.Ā 

1 hour ago, jimufctna24 said:

Anderson will be remembered as a legend (rightfully so), butĀ was heĀ a better fighter in his primeĀ than say Whittaker or Adesanya are today? In my view, no.Ā 

I wasnā€™tĀ arguing that, itā€™s something weā€™ll never be able to answer. And of course, combat sports are constantly evolving so the overall skills,Ā techniques, access to better andĀ differentĀ training methodsĀ and nutritional knowledge today is better than it was when Anderson ruled. If Anderson was in his 20s now and just coming along whoā€™s to say he wouldnā€™t go on to be better than the Anderson we knew? Weā€™ll never know.

Middleweight is definitely better these days. You donā€™t get todayā€™s equivalent of Nate Quarry getting title shots anymore because thereā€™s no need. The divisionĀ is deepĀ enough now that itā€™s always churning out worthy contenders. But Anderson beat most of the best of his era. There wasnā€™t a 185er Iā€™d say he ducked during his reign. He never faced Lindland but Lindland hadĀ gone from the UFC by that point. Itā€™s easy for peopleĀ to look back now andĀ shit on certain divisions back then because the names are all either retired now or we saw them getting battered a bunch at the end of their careers. But you still had Rich Franklin, who I think doesnā€™t really get his due. Anderson wreckedĀ him twice.Ā Nate Marquardt was legit back then. There were nightsĀ in his career where I thought he looked as good as anyone, champion material. He just never found that long term consistency. Anderson done him. Hendo was a hugeĀ win at the time.Ā Belfort was big. Weidman was a bad matchup who came along at the perfect time, right at the tail end of Andersonā€™s prime.Ā And whileĀ Bisping always had the attributes to give Anderson problems, itā€™s also worth noting that Anderson was 40 years old already by the time he faced Bisping. And thereā€™s still a strong case that he shouldā€™ve won that fight. However we chop itĀ up,Ā Anderson isĀ a legend. Aside from a couple of rotten fights, he did about as good as he couldā€™ve possibly done in those prime years and beat all comers from 2006 to 2012.

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Deal with it, Jim. Deal with it.

šŸ•·Ā 

Ā 

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48 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

And of course, combat sports are constantly evolving so the overall skills,Ā techniques, access to better andĀ differentĀ training methodsĀ and nutritional knowledge today is better than it was when Anderson ruled.

Fair point.Ā 

However, I believe the Middleweight division has evolved moreĀ than say the Heavyweight or Light-Heavyweight divisions. Is the Heavyweight division of say 2011, which had prime versions of Cain and JDS in it, really inferior to today's division?Ā 

55 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

Weidman was a bad matchup who came along at the perfect time, right at the tail end of Andersonā€™s prime.Ā And whileĀ Bisping always had the attributes to give Anderson problems, itā€™s also worth noting that Anderson was 40 years old already by the time he faced Bisping. And thereā€™s still a strong case that he shouldā€™ve won that fight. However we chop itĀ up,Ā Anderson isĀ a legend. Aside from a couple of rotten fights, he did about as good as he couldā€™ve possibly done in those prime years and beat all comers from 2006 to 2012.

I've never beenĀ sold that Anderson's losses to Bisping and WeidmanĀ can be attributed to his age (not that you said it was the only factor).

The warning signs were evident long before Weidman chinned him. When Maia and CoteĀ choseĀ to not extend themselves against him,Ā he looked a bit lost and could only really lead with low kicks.Ā 

And aye, he did changeĀ the game in some ways. As a striker, he was leagues above the other middleweights of his era. He was a crisp counter striker, who could stun opponents with his hands, knees, or feet.Ā I just don't think he was as complete a fighterĀ as some of the other greats of his eraĀ (Aldo, GSP, etc), and while I think he wouldĀ be a contender today if he was still in his prime, I don't think he'd be champion. But as you said, for various reasons, we will never know for sure.Ā 

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Iā€™ve always felt like the lacklustre performances againstĀ Maia andĀ Leites wereĀ as much down to him not wanting to be taken down as anything else. His early career losses in Japan (Takase, Chonan)Ā had been submissions. AndĀ even in the UFC, the only weakness heā€™d shown was on the ground when Lutter had him mounted andĀ Hendo took the firstĀ roundĀ off him. Leites and especially Maia hadĀ the kind of grappling that couldā€™ve given Anderson issues if theyā€™d been able to get that going and I think Anderson was a bit wary of that.Ā Youā€™reĀ probably onto something about them not giving him opportunities to counterĀ being a factor as wellĀ though, especially onĀ theĀ Cote fight. It was probably a combination of both and it just meant Anderson danced around waiting for openings that never really came, or if they did he didnā€™t want to leave himself vulnerable to the takedown.

On the Heavyweight division, itā€™s weird. It seemed to evolve and then devolve again. Itā€™s undeniable that the division improved massively around 2007/08. The Tim Sylvia era came to an end and the belt went to a beloved underdog in Randy Couture. That was the first step to recovery. Then you had Cro Cop and Big Nog jump over from Pride right around the same time along with Werdum and Herring.Ā Then in about a 6 month span we saw the UFC debuts of Shane Carwin, Cain Velasquez, Junior Dos Santos and Brock Lesnar. At the same time, outside the UFC you had Fedor, Overeem, Barnett, Bigfoot etc. It was by far the healthiest the Heavyweight division has ever been before or since. Sadly, that crew is now mostly gone and the ones that remain areĀ fading out. And there hasnā€™t really been anyone to replace them. Stipeā€™s fucking awesome. I think heā€™d have hung just fine inĀ that boom period of the division. But Iā€™ve always got the feeling heā€™s not going to stick around too much longer. Heā€™s never seemed like a MMA ā€˜liferā€™Ā to me. And thatā€™s probably a good thing. Heā€™s just a normal dude with other things going on in his life. HeĀ just happens to be a fucking all time great Heavyweight MMA fighter. But if he doesnā€™t fight much longer, thereā€™s not much else going on. DCā€™s got one left and thatā€™ll be his career wrapped up in August. JDS, Overeem and Werdum probably have no more than a handful of fights left. Cainā€™s probably done.Ā The only two who really stand out to me are Francis Ngannou and maybe Ciryl Gane. But even thenĀ itā€™s early days with Gane and him and Ngannou are teammates so thatā€™s probably that futureĀ monster clash deadĀ before it even gets off the ground. If people think Heavyweight is bad now, give it a couple more years when all the current names have retired and weā€™re watching Blaydes vs Volkov 5 for the title.Ā 

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32 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

His early career losses in Japan (Takase, Chonan)Ā had been submissions. AndĀ even in the UFC, the only weakness heā€™d shown was on the ground when Lutter had him mounted andĀ Hendo took the firstĀ roundĀ off him.

I've mentioned this before, so I will probably sound like a broken record, but Anderson was better suited to the cage rather than the ring. The cageĀ doesn't have corners. which gives counterĀ strikers more room to create distanceĀ and evade grappling exchanges. The ring with its sharp edges, makes strikers moreĀ vulnerable to being trapped in corners, which means they have to be very physical when fighting off takedowns.Ā 

While Anderson was an excellent counter striker, he didn't have the frame to fight as a sprawl and brawler. Hence why he struggled a bit inĀ Pride. Had the UFC used a ring instead of the cage, then it's very possible that heĀ would have ended up as a wasted talent.Ā 

32 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

Stipeā€™s fucking awesome. I think heā€™d have hung just fine inĀ that boom period of the division.

Agreed.Ā Stipe would be a handful for any heavyweight, past or present.Ā 

Edited by jimufctna24
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Wicked. Both Danny Roberts and Shavkat Rakhmonov are off this card injured. Killing one of the fights I was most looking forward to on the show (Roberts vs Dalby) and Rakhmonovā€™s debut. Absolute bastard.

With both cancelled fights being at Welterweight, I guess the logical move is to pair the opponents off so weā€™re probably getting Nicolas Dalby vs Ramazan Emeev now. Decent enough but underwhelming.Ā 

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yeh makes sense.

We may see these Fight Island cards thin out because unless its like a situation above where two guys in the same division can match up, there is no chance of them getting last minute subs in like they have been doing in Vegas, fights will just be cancelled.

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Yeah most likely. Iā€™ve noticed Iā€™ve been editing the opening posts on these COVID era cards a lot with all the changes and pullouts.Ā Youā€™d think that because most of the fights on these cards come together fairly close to show time, that thereā€™d be less time for fighters to pick up injuries due to the short camps. ButĀ I guess thatā€™s a double edgedĀ sword. The guys who stay in shape in between fights are probably fine but I betĀ some guys are getting the call and maybe coming in a bit out of shape, trying to squeeze in too much training in a short time to overcompensateĀ and thatā€™s how theyā€™re getting hurt.

Just seen onĀ MMA JunkieĀ that Paul Craig vs Gadzhimurad Antigulov has been added to this now as well.Ā 

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NOOOOO! Looks like Umar Nurmagomedov vs Nathaniel Wood might be off. Umar and teammate Tagir UlanbekovĀ cancelled their flights to Fight Island after Abdulmanapā€™s death this week. Ulanbekov wasĀ out of his fight anyway from what I can tell, and has already been replaced. Looks like Nurmagomedov is off too.Ā 

Totally understandable, especially for Nurmagomedov being related to Abdulmanap,Ā but no less disappointing. Nurmagomedov vs Wood was one of the fights I was most looking forward to in July.Ā 

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