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The Official UKFF RAW thread (part 2)...


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1 hour ago, tiger_rick said:

They just had a big visual overhaul. Probably cost a fortune. Felt the same as before after about 10 minutes.

In fairness, that was just putting on a new coat of pain effectively. It's a presentation problem as much as anything. Different camera angles, different lighting, a different style of shooting that are needed in order to actually make a difference.

The live edits on WWE programming are distinctive, but not in a good way. For me, a new approach is needed to make the product at least look fresh (it doesn't solve everything, but it's a step in the right direction). One of the things AEW does so well, is present something that looks different and is produced differently which means that it catches the eye in a way WWE does not at present.

If WWE do want to go full LED bells and whistles, I wonder if a more sports-type presentation might be the way to go (not that Vince will presumably allow such a thing), maybe have the first half an hour of Raw as a pre-game studio panel like you get before Football etc, and the last half an hour as the existing Raw Talk format and then you still keep the 3 hours, but it puts less pressure on actual show.

Obviously that means making those shows more compelling, but the variety it offers would give them more room to work in. They could even lean into the pre-show being the natural heir to the old Prime Time Wrestling show. Unlikely, I appreciate, but that is just one of many options they could employ to freshen up Raw. 

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37 minutes ago, tiger_rick said:

I'm not convinced they can solve their problems because the biggest issues I have with it as a promotion are all intentional.

That's the key to it all, isn't it? 

With the exception of genuinely weird stuff like the Charlotte/Nia Jax match that broke down, or the rain delays at Wrestlemania, the biggest barrier to getting invested in WWE is that every shit finish, bad story, or dull bit of TV you know is exactly how they planned it. With AEW, there's a sometimes rough-around-the-edges or chaotic element to it all, but you know that when something doesn't quite land right, they'll give you a make-good, or try and book their way into a better place. With WWE, it's terrible after having gone through a writers' room, Vince's office, and Kevin Dunn's production. Everything is micromanaged, so multiple people have signed off on the shit that makes the cut, because that shit is what they want.

In terms of not sticking to announced cards, rewrites down to the wire, and so on, they do it because none of it matters. The most refreshing thing about AEW is that it feels like the first time in decades, if not ever, we've got a mainstream wrestling promotion that doesn't treat its audience with contempt. They tell us over and over again that wins and losses don't matter, that the majority of the roster are interchangeable, and that we're dumb marks for getting invested, and then don't understand why they can't get anyone over. And, ultimately, it doesn't matter because they keep making money regardless, and won't change until that money starts drying up - the best we can hope for is that AEW pick up some major sponsors, keep improving in the ratings, and TV networks are left wondering why they're paying over the odds for a wrestling product that isn't delivering the goods while AEW outperforms them at a fraction of the cost.

Nothing changes for the better while it's still a content factory.

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2 hours ago, BomberPat said:

In terms of not sticking to announced cards, rewrites down to the wire, and so on, they do it because none of it matters. The most refreshing thing about AEW is that it feels like the first time in decades, if not ever, we've got a mainstream wrestling promotion that doesn't treat its audience with contempt.

Doesn't it all just boil down to the fact that the AEW is unashamedly, and always will be, a wrestling company rather than harbouring this overriding obsession with 'making movies' and becoming the next Disney?

If we're honest, despite its successes in hitting the mainstream in mid 80s and revolutionising how people saw wrestling, the WWF's progression screeched to a halt in 1998/1999 didn't it? Can anyone really claim it's been in anything but a holding pattern since?

There's a valid argument that AEW's best days are ahead of it and the greatest stuff is yet to come. Does anyone really expect anything but more of the same in the WWE's constrained environment? 

I swear it has to have something to do with the Khan's owning all sorts of intellectual properties and franchises anyway, so AEW doesn't have to be a springboard to launching a vanity bodybuilding federation, second rate American football league or whatever.

Edited by garynysmon
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8 minutes ago, garynysmon said:

Doesn't it all just boil down to the fact that the AEW is unashamedly, and always will be, a wrestling company rather than harbouring this overriding obsession with 'making movies' and becoming the next Disney?

WWE have been trying to win that Emmy award for a while now.

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21 minutes ago, garynysmon said:

Doesn't it all just boil down to the fact that the AEW is unashamedly, and always will be, a wrestling company rather than harbouring this overriding obsession with 'making movies' and becoming the next Disney?

If we're honest, despite its successes in hitting the mainstream in mid 80s and revolutionising how people saw wrestling, the WWF's progression screeched to a halt in 1998/1999 didn't it? Can anyone really claim it's been in anything but a holding pattern since?

There's a valid argument that AEW's best days are ahead of it and the greatest stuff is yet to come. Does anyone really expect anything but more of the same in the WWE's constrained environment? 

I swear it has to have something to do with the Khan's owning all sorts of intellectual properties and franchises anyway, so AEW doesn't have to be a springboard to launching a vanity bodybuilding federation, second rate American football league or whatever.

I'd like to think that maybe this company will be better after Vince McMahon is dead.

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37 minutes ago, garynysmon said:

Doesn't it all just boil down to the fact that the AEW is unashamedly, and always will be, a wrestling company rather than harbouring this overriding obsession with 'making movies' and becoming the next Disney?

I think it has to do with Vinces insecurities within the Connecticut Set. This is his life’s work and his legacy but to other billionaires he’s the wrestling guy and his money isn’t as good as their money because theirs is from proper business. That’s why he wants something “Legitimate” as it were, something grown up. 
 

Khan is the opposite, born into a billionaire family, wrestling is his plaything and isn’t really designed to make him rich. I also think that’s why he’s so shit at Fulham and fans hate him. Usually football clubs are a billionaires plaything to throw money at but wrestling is his favourite toy so he isn’t too bothered about the goings on at Craven Cottage. 
 

 

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Just now, Keith Houchen said:

I think it has to do with Vinces insecurities within the Connecticut Set. This is his life’s work and his legacy but to other billionaires he’s the wrestling guy and his money isn’t as good as their money because theirs is from proper business. That’s why he wants something “Legitimate” as it were, something grown up. 
 

Khan is the opposite, born into a billionaire family, wrestling is his plaything and isn’t really designed to make him rich. I also think that’s why he’s so shit at Fulham and fans hate him. Usually football clubs are a billionaires plaything to throw money at but wrestling is his favourite toy so he isn’t too bothered about the goings on at Craven Cottage. 
 

 

Also illustrated by Khan sitting at Jacksonville Jags games doodling PPV lineups.

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5 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

Khan is the opposite, born into a billionaire family, wrestling is his plaything and isn’t really designed to make him rich. I also think that’s why he’s so shit at Fulham and fans hate him. Usually football clubs are a billionaires plaything to throw money at but wrestling is his favourite toy so he isn’t too bothered about the goings on at Craven Cottage.

Fans are crazy aren't they? I know Fulham had a bit of a run under Al-Fayad but honestly, turning your nose up at yo-yo'ing between the Premier League and Championship while rebuilding the stadium and spending £120m on players after their decades in the doldrums is utter madness.

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Just now, tiger_rick said:

Fans are crazy aren't they? I know Fulham had a bit of a run under Al-Fayad but honestly, turning your nose up at yo-yo'ing between the Premier League and Championship while rebuilding the stadium and spending £120m on players after their decades in the doldrums is utter madness.

That Michael Jackson statue was too good for the likes of them. 

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I can see Khan getting bored before Vince, to be honest. He's getting an easy ride at the moment and he's newish and exciting (not so much as Bronn). But when backlash comes, and it will, and times get shit, and they will, its easier to cast off a busman's holiday (or so it feels at the moment for him) than something you've had to gamble everything thing on and lose sleep for 40odd years over.  I mean he's doing nothing the rest of us wouldn't do if we were a bunch of rich playboys. But how much work is in him? 

 

Just look at the state Fulham is in. 

Edited by PowerButchi
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2 hours ago, PowerButchi said:

I can see Khan getting bored before Vince, to be honest. He's getting an easy ride at the moment and he's newish and exciting (not so much as Bronn). But when backlash comes, and it will, and times get shit, and they will, its easier to cast off a busman's holiday (or so it feels at the moment for him) than something you've had to gamble everything thing on and lose sleep for 40odd years over.  I mean he's doing nothing the rest of us wouldn't do if we were a bunch of rich playboys. But how much work is in him? 

 

Just look at the state Fulham is in. 

Couldn’t disagree more. Vince grew up in a wrestling family, basically groomed into running the company and had big ambitions. Tony Khan is a life long fan. He’s living out his childhood dream, basically having a real life Wrestling Warfare. The only way he gets out is if they lose their TV deal, or they get bought out.

Did he give a shit about football? Can he even find Fulham on a map? Also, we’re talking Fulham here not Chelsea, they are overachieving by Yo-Yoing between the top two tiers in Football. 

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16 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

Couldn’t disagree more. Vince grew up in a wrestling family, basically groomed into running the company and had big ambitions. Tony Khan is a life long fan. He’s living out his childhood dream, basically having a real life Wrestling Warfare. The only way he gets out is if they lose their TV deal, or they get bought out.

Did he give a shit about football? Can he even find Fulham on a map? Also, we’re talking Fulham here not Chelsea, they are overachieving by Yo-Yoing between the top two tiers in Football. 

Vince didn't really so much grow up in a wrestling family. He lived in the south and didn't meet his old man until he was 12 (probably why he loves those redneck gimmicks so much). At the same time Vince was a life long fan, it's been discussed on here recently his hard on for people like Bobo Brazil and he's well known for his love of all the old timers. Famously he loved Dr Jerry Graham. 

 

Was he groomed into running the company? Very possibly, very probably. But to say he's not a wrestling fan would be unfair. However he's got skin like rhino hide. 

 

Khan has already been a moody bugger about the exploding ring match. When people turn on him, and it will happen at some point as its wrestling and I think everyone other than Ricky Steamboat gets set upon at some point, will he have the wherewithal and passion for all his old buddies off places like DVDVR and Scotsmanality running him to shite? 

 

Also Fulham play ine one of the most affluent areas in England, and have been very heavily bankrolled since the days of signing Kit Symons and Chris Coleman in the late 90s. I don't think they've overachieved whatsoever. Let's not confuse them with say a Bournemouth or Brighton. 

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6 hours ago, PowerButchi said:

Vince didn't really so much grow up in a wrestling family. He lived in the south and didn't meet his old man until he was 12 (probably why he loves those redneck gimmicks so much). At the same time Vince was a life long fan, it's been discussed on here recently his hard on for people like Bobo Brazil and he's well known for his love of all the old timers. Famously he loved Dr Jerry Graham. 

 

Was he groomed into running the company? Very possibly, very probably. But to say he's not a wrestling fan would be unfair. However he's got skin like rhino hide. 

 

Khan has already been a moody bugger about the exploding ring match. When people turn on him, and it will happen at some point as its wrestling and I think everyone other than Ricky Steamboat gets set upon at some point, will he have the wherewithal and passion for all his old buddies off places like DVDVR and Scotsmanality running him to shite? 

 

Also Fulham play ine one of the most affluent areas in England, and have been very heavily bankrolled since the days of signing Kit Symons and Chris Coleman in the late 90s. I don't think they've overachieved whatsoever. Let's not confuse them with say a Bournemouth or Brighton. 

I never said Vince wasn’t a fan. But watching the product today you wouldn’t know it. Either he’s lost his passion, or he simply doesn’t know what works anymore. But I’ll grant you Khan has had it easy so far. But that’s because he’s also earned that by producing a decent product and PPV’s of the quality not since from WWE since the early 00’s.

And come on, you can say the same about Any London club, but Fulham have achieved what since Al-Fayed? Other then getting Michael Jackson down there it’s been nothing of note. Also, blame the chairman (no, Not Shawn Spears), but Tony is just a mere part of that set up.

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