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The Official UKFF RAW thread (part 2)...


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28 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

I love Andrade but he's short and can barely speak English. He's not what WWE are looking for in a main eventer. 

He's not short by modern standards and speaks enough English. The problem is their absolute inability to divert from their opinion of what a WWE main eventer is. I'm as traditional as anyone. If the Ultimate Warrior came blasting out next week, I'd be all on the hype train. But it's not happening. The world has changed. They have to change with it and just can't. So when a guy lands in their lap who looks and works like a Superstar, appeals to two massive demos in Hispanics and women and they can't work with that, they've got no chance. 

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33 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

I haven't seen enough Keith Lee to comment but my point here is that NXT is supposed to be a factory of the next generation of WWE main eventers. If you look at all the homegrown guys they've really got behind (Batista, Lesnar, Orton, Cena, Reigns - basically big handsome decent workers with charisma) no one from the Triple H NXT PC has even been close to that mould. From WWE/Vince's perspective surely this project has been a disappointment. Vince wants the next Cena but instead he's just been given a bunch of Johnny Kickpads.

Four of those guys came through OVW at the same time 20 years ago. That's a freak. They never got close to replicating that in OVW, DSW, FCW or NXT and never will. If they just keep waiting on that, they'll wait forever. What they do get given, when the world is looking for diverse heroes is a huge black man who has charisma coming out of every pore, is incredibly likeable and strong as fuck. No one's fault but theirs that he's not a star and probably won't be.

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Braun had potential then they just turned him into an insert any wrestler here and stopped treating like a giant attraction, long before they canned him as found a bigger bloke on a fraction of the money. 
 

nxt has been trying to be too many things, it tried to be the cool indie to stop cool indies getting traction. It added nxt uk to stop uk scene getting traction: whilst all along it was meant to be the pathway to the main roster, which we all know is a big lads territory in a Vinces head. And for all that money going into the development centre, the return main roster wise doesn't justify it when they can start chasing out of contract guys in aew who are tv ready for a fraction of the PC output. 

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18 minutes ago, tiger_rick said:

Four of those guys came through OVW at the same time 20 years ago. That's a freak. They never got close to replicating that in OVW, DSW, FCW or NXT and never will. If they just keep waiting on that, they'll wait forever.

Oh yeah absolutely. They definitely need to change their perceptions on what a WWE main eventer can be. But they haven't yet and they want more of the same which their current developmental has failed to deliver. So by that metric Triple Hs strategy has been unsuccessful. 

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4 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

Oh yeah absolutely. They definitely need to change their perceptions on what a WWE main eventer can be. But they haven't yet and they want more of the same which their current developmental has failed to deliver. So by that metric Triple Hs strategy has been unsuccessful. 

I don't know what they've spent (or earned) on PC/NXT compared to the previous system so hard to compare that aspect but in terms of talent, it seems to have made no difference. 

However, we're about 7 years into this strategy. If the scouting, signings and character work isn't delivering people who fit their vision, then it's about 6 years too late to be annoyed at someone else about it. Everyone on here has had it pegged as a big time Indy promotion for years. If Vince hasn't, tgen he's more out of touch than we ever realised. 

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27 minutes ago, tiger_rick said:

If Vince hasn't, tgen he's more out of touch than we ever realised. 

I think this is definitely the case. Vince seems like the most out of touch person in the world.

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1 hour ago, tiger_rick said:

The problem is their absolute inability to divert from their opinion of what a WWE main eventer is. 

This really is the biggest problem with WWE full stop. They will always push the brocks and Goldbergs (and Romans Reigns to an extent) over younger/newer talent because that's what a main eventer looks like.

 

Honestly, the 12 months after Vince dies will be fascinating to see how much changes and how much it highlights how much control he had

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12 hours ago, tiger_rick said:

In Balor, they have a handsome Irish lad with the body of a greek god who is also a tremendous worker? Honestly, what more do they want to work with?

You’re forgetting arguably his biggest up side. He had a highly marketable, kid friendly alter ego!

Sure, it was never really made clear as to WHY he’d occasionally turn up dressed for Halloween but that doesn’t really matter when you’ve got kids all over the world buying the figures and turning up to live shows dressed as their superhero (anti-hero?)-esque idol.

I’m not ashamed to say I had him pegged as the next Rey Mysterio. Never as THE main eventer but certainly an over, crowd favourite top-guy.

Was I right? Maybe not but that doesn’t mean WWE couldn’t have done a million times better with the bloke. Though I suppose he’s not the only one, so what’s new? 🤷‍♂️

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10 hours ago, tiger_rick said:

Four of those guys came through OVW at the same time 20 years ago. That's a freak. They never got close to replicating that in OVW, DSW, FCW or NXT and never will. If they just keep waiting on that, they'll wait forever. What they do get given, when the world is looking for diverse heroes is a huge black man who has charisma coming out of every pore, is incredibly likeable and strong as fuck. No one's fault but theirs that he's not a star and probably won't be.

I don’t disagree that Keith Lee is a freak in terms of wrestling but those mannerisms he has are horrendous. It’s like your Dad doing an impersonation of a wrestler the way he talks and moves his head about.

I never really seen him before WWE though so I can’t comment if that was trained there or he’s always done it.

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I think its worth remembering that while Cena and Batista fitted the mold of becoming a top star for them, that wasn't always guaranteed and it only really happened because they capitalised on them getting over with the audience.

Cena was supposedly near to being released. They went with the rap gimmick and he got over and they ran with it. 

Batista was already pretty old by the time he became a main eventer. And let's not forget that his first run involved him being a big stooge for Reverend D-von. He wasn't meant to be the break out star from Evolution, but they realised the crowd were into him taking on HHH and they ran with him (over Orton, who was clearly meant to be in that position). 

Both became main event stars because they capitalised on them getting over with the audience. In Cena's case they hit the jackpot because he was the ultimate company man. 

Having said all that, it's pretty clear that they consider a lot of things beyond getting over with the audience, having a good look and being a decent wrestler. When Reigns revealed his Leukaemia diagnosis and the curtain dropped, I think even his biggest detractors could see why they persevered with him. He was a leader. The locker room loved him. It wasn't just that he was a good looking guy.

On the Finn Balor front, I think they lost faith in him. They went all in with his main roster debut and then he got injured and that was that. I think that's a huge waste, and obviously not fair, but I do think he was a guy they were fully prepared to strap a rocket to. It also doesn't seem like he's that bothered about not being a main event star. 

I think its the template that's broken in the WWE. They're similar to Marvel in that they're so large they feel the need for a formula rather than creative risks. Unlike Marvel, their current formula is broken. 

As for the future after Vince has gone? I know HHH was meant to be the saviour but that seems increasingly unlikely with each passing year. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Vamp said:

As for the future after Vince has gone? I know HHH was meant to be the saviour but that seems increasingly unlikely with each passing year. 

Yes it's increasingly unlikely Vince will ever die. 

Edited by Weezenal
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3 hours ago, Vamp said:

As for the future after Vince has gone? I know HHH was meant to be the saviour but that seems increasingly unlikely with each passing year. 

Yeah there was that period where Ryan Ward was writing really good NXT TV for a tear or two and everyone took that as a sign Triple H would save WWE when he took the reigns one day. It all got a bit over the top. Hasn't Triple H actually been demoted since then?

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