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UFC 251: Usman vs Masvidal - Jul 11 πŸ‡¦πŸ‡ͺ 🏝🌴


wandshogun09

Who wins and how?   

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Just now, Egg Shen said:

well what's the point in continuing the discussion? it wont end well, i don't agree with you, you don't agree with me, so why are we even bothering?

It's not just me you don't agree with by the looks of it. It's pretty much every other sane-minded poster with a passing interest in the sport.

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The champion represents the pinnacle. In a lot of MMA fans minds, that means a black man is better than a white man and they don’t like that. And if that black man carries himself with swagger, that’s even worse for them. Even the most respectful kindest black man isn’t as favourable as champion than a dickhead white man. That’s the mindset.Β 

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3 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

The champion represents the pinnacle. In a lot of MMA fans minds, that means a black man is better than a white man and they don’t like that. And if that black man carries himself with swagger, that’s even worse for them. Even the most respectful kindest black man isn’t as favourable as champion than a dickhead white man. That’s the mindset.Β 

Or even worse, a champion who carries himself with that swagger but is also intelligent, well-spoken and educated. Honestly, there is absolutely fuck all that anyone can say is "unlikeable" about Usman out of the cage.Β 

Dude is the epitome of a championship calibre athlete. The UFC should have the fucker on every talk show and public appearance that they can. He's the anti-Perry/McGregor.Β 

How can anyone watch an interview like this and think the dude is unlikeable? He's one of the few elite MMA fighters who turns the whole image of a broken nosed/ugly eared UFC cage fighter on its head.

Β 

Edited by David
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8 minutes ago, David said:

Or even worse, a champion who carries himself with that swagger but is also intelligent, well-spoken and educated. Honestly, there is absolutely fuck all that anyone can say is "unlikeable" about Usman out of the cage.Β 

Dude is the epitome of a championship calibre athlete. The UFC should have the fucker on every talk show and public appearance that they can. He's the anti-Perry/McGregor.Β 

Not to go around in circles, but that highlights my point, he isnt doing those things because he doesnt have the personality or charisma for it, thats my only point here. Only certain fighters cross that line and i dont believe skin colour has much to do with it.Β 

You just seem to have taken major issue with the fact that i labelled him unlikeable, if that touched a nerve, i apologise. Over the course of the thread i think ive made it pretty clear what i was getting at though.

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Just now, Egg Shen said:

Not to go around in circles, but that highlights my point, he isnt doing those things because he doesnt have the personality or charisma for it, thats my only point here. Only certain fighters cross that line and i dont believe skin colour has much to do with it.

Who actually is doing those things though? There's rarely an MMA fighter on a mainstream television show these days, is there? My point is, they're missing the boat with someone like Usman. He's the type who would go on a chat show and completely throw the audience and the host. Guaranteed they'd be like "I never expected someone who beats people up in a cage to be like this."

And I don't get this talk of no charisma. I've met the dude in person, he comes across every inch as someone who's "somebody." And an example would be that interview I posted above. Incredibly engaging and a guy with a lot to say and a unique past to talk about.

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37 minutes ago, David said:

Β 

Dude is the epitome of a championship calibre athlete. The UFC should have the fucker on every talk show and public appearance that they can. He's the anti-Perry/McGregor.Β 

You could say the same about Alexander Volkanovski. Why hasn't he become a star?Β 

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Just now, Egg Shen said:

You could say the same about Alexander Volkanovski. Why hasn't he become a star?Β 

You think so? As much as I'm a fan of Volk, I don't think he has anywhere near the kind of presenceΒ as Usman. He's not as well-spoken for a start, although he's an amiable and friendly type of guy. But he's more of a tracksuit and sneakers type of dude, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Usman looks like a star. He dresses the part, talks the part, and carries himself like you'd expect of someone atΒ his level.Β 

Granted, he's not been accused of rape or slapped a pensioner around, so he's obviously not MMA star material, but still.

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10 minutes ago, David said:

Β 

Usman looks like a star. He dresses the part, talks the part, and carries himself like you'd expect of someone atΒ his level.Β 

Β 

Yeh, and im not saying that eventually Usman could not become a real star in future, the foundations are there. Unless you have that rare type of charisma that just makes you stand out and gets people interested immediately it just takes that right opponent, story or circumstance toΒ elevateΒ you. It just hasn't happened for him yet.

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Yeah I think the key thing is the distinction between unlikeable and unremarkable. I’d wager the reason MMeAtheads find Usman unlikeable is because he’s a black man who is the champ.Β 
Β 

Finding him unremarkable is a totally different thing, people don’t click for any number of reasons with an individual. It doesn’t meant they dislike them though.Β 

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it probably is, you had your say andΒ i still dont agree with it, so there we go.

The show did 1.3million buys, which is a ridiculous number. The highest non-Conor PPV in UFC history.

(and whilst you're there, go read the replies, there actually 250+ people in that discussion and i couldnt see one racially focussed tweet amongst them, lots of negativeΒ stuff about hugging and foot stomping though).

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15 hours ago, David said:

Probably because Masvidal is a far better striker than Covington? I've seen fans on social reference this as well, and I'm not sure what they really expected Usman to do? Go in there and throw down with someone who's clearly a better boxer and heavier puncher? Why the fuck would he do that?

That's like saying that Masvidal's clinch and work on the inside looked better against Nate, so it's a bit strange how uncomfortable he looked against Usman. Two entirely different levels of grappling.

It was always going to be a case of the boxer versus the grappler. Masvidal only ever had a punchers chance, so why give him more of a chance to throw said punch? Lots of moaning on social media, which suggests to me that a lot more people are buying into the hype and the scarface promotion than actually looking at it as a fight. It was always going to go down this way. Either that or Masvidal lands a bomb that takes Usman out.

Don't get me wrong, as I said originally, the fight played out how I expected it to for the most part. With Usman having such a large grappling advantage, of course he was going to lean on that. It was just a little jarring to see Usman completely avoid being in striking range when he spent the majority of 5 rounds doing it against Colby.

You're right though, levels to this stuff. I'd fancy my chances standing and trading with CM Punk, but I'd be shooting double legs like my life depended on it against McGregor.

As for the other discussion about Usman, I'm indifferent to him. I just don't know that much about him. Hadn't seen the stuff about his daughter, haven't seen enough media appearances to see how well he speaks or how well he dresses. I'll say that a large segment of the MMA fanbase definitely base their opinions of fighters on race- shit, go to America and speak to some people and you'll hear some pretty damning things from certain parts of the population. I wouldn't lump Ebb in there though. Not EVERYONE who has something negative to say about a fighter of colour is automatically racist- I think that's where some of the animosity towards Woodley came in- he set a record for the least amount of strikes ever thrown in a UFC title fight, but he seemedΒ to think anyone criticising him was doing it from a racially motivated POV. Not to say he doesn't get racist attacks from some scumbags, but I think a man of any colour would face some pretty heavy criticism for a fight like that.

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48 minutes ago, Egg Shen said:

and whilst you're there, go read the replies, there actually 250+ people in that discussion and i couldnt see one racially focussed tweet amongst them,

Probably because it was mainly talk about the buyrate, which is what the tweet was about. But I’m sure all the people posting negative stuff were completely neutral going into the fight and didn’t have a preference about who won.Β 

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