Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted July 13, 2020 Author Paid Members Share Posted July 13, 2020 I agree with nearly every word of what you say David. Except the Woodley stuff. Woodley is, as you describe Luke Thomas, a right “moaning faced cunt”. I’m sure he’s nice enough away from MMA, and I think the criticism he got for being ‘boring’ was way harsh. The man knocked out Robbie Lawler, looked incredible squashing Darren Till and had that cracking first fight with Wonderboy. Going back further, he was on the losing end but his fight with Nate Marquardt in Strikeforce is a bit of a forgotten classic. But I could never warm to him as a personality and it genuinely had zero to do with race and nothing to do with him dressing well or any of that. It just seemed like every time he opened his mouth, negativity and whining just spewed out. I’d dislike that from my own family members. With Usman I was indifferent for a while. Didn’t really see much of his personality so my opinion was formed purely on his fights. And they were hit and miss in terms of excitement. The performance against Woodley was breathtaking though and the scenes with his mum post-fight, the picture he posted of his little girl sleeping with the UFC belt and his interviews around that fight week made me a fan. Then he cracked Colby’s face and that was it. Unless he suddenly takes a McGregor-like turn into an absolute bellend, I think I’ll be a fan for life. Beating Masvidal was the cherry on the cake. I don’t see anything to dislike about Usman myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Just now, Egg Shen said: and read my initial posts, i said "for whatever reason", and it's "hard to pinpoint" why people don't like him. Some fighters just do not connect with fans, i haven't particularly warmed to Usman either, and i can't necessarily tell you why? It may just be me, but to deem someone unlikeable without actually knowing why is fucking bizarre. Especially when said person is actually incredibly likeable. How anyone can find these two dudes unlikeable is beyond me: Now, disliking their fighting style? Fine. No issues there. But you to acknowledge that there's no real reason to dislike Usman as a person, yet so readily dismiss racism as playing no part is ridiculous. 10 minutes ago, Egg Shen said: Fucking hell, Jorge Masvidal didn't, he spent 17 years as somebody only the hardcore fans appreciated. A rare combination of things fell into place and it lead to him becoming a superstar over the course of a year. People were indifferent to Masvidal though, there's a difference there. And, he's given people plenty of reason to not like him personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted July 13, 2020 Author Paid Members Share Posted July 13, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Egg Shen said: Fucking hell, Jorge Masvidal didn't, he spent 17 years as somebody only the hardcore fans appreciated. Speak for yourself. I’m probably fairly hardcore (hate that term) but bollocks to him and his pink nightdress. Edit - oh and Woodley’s mum, ace. Woodley himself? Not so much. Sorry. Edited July 13, 2020 by wandshogun09 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said: I agree with nearly every word of what you say David. Except the Woodley stuff. Woodley is, as you describe Luke Thomas, a right “moaning faced cunt”. I’m sure he’s nice enough away from MMA, and I think the criticism he got for being ‘boring’ was way harsh. The man knocked out Robbie Lawler, looked incredible squashing Darren Till and had that cracking first fight with Wonderboy. Going back further, he was on the losing end but his fight with Nate Marquardt in Strikeforce is a bit of a forgotten classic. But I could never warm to him as a personality and it genuinely had zero to do with race and nothing to do with him dressing well or any of that. It just seemed like every time he opened his mouth, negativity and whining just spewed out. I’d dislike that from my own family members. Woodley was raising issues that made people uncomfortable though, wasn't he? He was talking about race before taking about race was considered cool by corporate white America. He put his head on the chopping block when it would have been easier for him to just keep quiet and make his money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted July 13, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted July 13, 2020 It has nothing to do with whether or not they are good people Dave, i think you are missing the point. Its more to do with being an engaging personality that people want to follow and support as a sports fan. That's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted July 13, 2020 Author Paid Members Share Posted July 13, 2020 (edited) @David Fair enough but it seemed to be everything with Woodley. Not only the race issue. Just came across really arsey to me a lot of the time. He seemed to mellow out in recent years to be fair, and I like his analyst work. He seems to enjoy that and when he’s having more of a laugh he seems fine. But for the longest time he just had this constant vibe of everything and everyone being against him and it was tiresome listening to him. Just for clarity, I’ve no doubt that there’s a big old racist chunk of the MMA fanbase. Time and time again we’re reminded that a lot of them are scum. And I’m sure a lot of the backlash Woodley got was down to that. But on the flipside, I can totally see why someone who’s not racist would still find Tyron Woodley a bit abrasive and hard to like. Because that’s how I saw him for years and I know I’m not racist. You shouldn’t have to fear being branded a racist for saying that like you’d say it about any other fighter, just because he’s black. Edited July 13, 2020 by wandshogun09 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted July 13, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted July 13, 2020 11 minutes ago, David said: How anyone can find these two dudes unlikeable is beyond me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Just now, Egg Shen said: It has nothing to do with whether or not they are good people Dave, i think you are missing the point. Its more to do with being an engaging personality that people want to follow and support as a sports fan. That's it. No, I'm not missing the point at all. For someone to be "unlikeable" there has to be an active reason to dislike them. For example. Mike Perry. Unlikeable. Why? He acts like a tosser outside the cage, and has shown he has no issue lifting his hands to a woman. Conor McGregor. Unlikeable. The reasons why are well documented. Petr Yan. I don't think he has an engaging personality, but I wouldn't claim he was "unlikeable." I'd say I'm indifferent to him as a person. I enjoy watching him as a fighter. You see the difference here? If it was just a case of Usman being bland as fuck this wouldn't be an issue, but that's not the case. It's not indifference we're seeing displayed towards him, it's outright hostility and dislike. There's a difference. And it's the same thing Tyron Woodley faced, and it's the same thing that Israel Adesanya is beginning to face. He's exciting to watch, but now the tide is turning against him for some reason. Is he "unlikeable" now as well? Connect the dots and tell me what those three individuals all have in common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Just now, wandshogun09 said: Just for clarity, I’ve no doubt that there’s a big old racist chunk of the MMA fanbase. Time and time again we’re reminded that a lot of them are scum. But on the flipside, I can totally see why someone would find Tyron Woodley a bit abrasive and hard to like. And you shouldn’t have to fear being branded a racist for saying that like you’d say it about any other fighter, just because he’s black. I agree with this. My issue was with @Egg Shen trying to brush this aspect under carpet, claiming it wasn't a race issue. It most certainly is. Especially with Usman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted July 13, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted July 13, 2020 Im not trying to brush it under the carpet, I just don't think its the primary reason why people haven't warmed to Kamaru Usman. You clearly do, and you've made your mind up and we all know there's no changing that. Onto your other point, is the tide really shifting against Israel Adesanya? im not sensing that, they've just stuck him on the cover of the video game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted July 13, 2020 Author Paid Members Share Posted July 13, 2020 (edited) Yeah that’s spot on. In the case of Adesanya the only thing I can say is that he’s a brash and flamboyant personality. And from one POV, that’ll always have some loving you and some disliking you. Regardless of race, gender, sexuality etc. If you’re a loud personality, you’ll get strong positive and negative reactions whatever you do. But I also get that there’s an uglier side and from the standpoint of dirty racists, they won’t like it in a ‘he’s got ideas above his station’ way. Who’s this black guy to act like this? That type of thing. I love Adesanya myself. He’s a breath of fresh air to me. Great in the cage, showman with the entrances and stuff, doesn’t shy away from talking shit. The fact he’s only been in the UFC about 2 years or so and his fights feel like such big events says it all. One thing I have noticed, and it backs up your points David. Is that fans (not all but in general) seem way less forgiving of a bad fight when it’s a black fighter involved. Usman just had one of the best fights of 2019 against Covington and a crazy good performance against Woodley before that. Has a bit of a lacklustre but clear win over Masvidal and everyone’s shitting on him. Adesanya has been ridiculously entertaining in the UFC so far. Had that FOTY with Gastelum, schooled and KO’d Whittaker. Yet had that one snoozer with Romero and suddenly he’s a boring fighter. Even Ngannou, look how quick everyone wrote him off after the Stipe and Lewis fights. MMA fans are an unforgiving bunch at the best of times but it does seem like they’re much quicker to turn on black fighters when they have a bad night at the office. Edited July 13, 2020 by wandshogun09 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted July 13, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted July 13, 2020 For me, there are certain subtleties that make for a distasteful picture. Kevin Lee, despite being perhaps slightly better than Masvidal, did what Masvidal and McGregor both did, yet never got any of the same plaudits or die-hards who'd defend him for anything. The thing is nobody believes someone is automatically racist for disliking a black fighter for being a cock-end - I don't like Rampage because he's a frat-boy douchebag, and I can't stand Jones for the many obvious reasons. But Usman hasn't done anything to be disliked. If there are rumblings in the fanbase about that, with everything the way it is right now, we're right to ask questions why. The notion that the UFC and/or sports in general would be unaffected by an issue as major as civil rights/race relations is naive at best, wilfully ignorant at worst. (To echo David, I'm not saying Egg's doing that; I'm just saying that on the basis of everything we know right now not only about the current political situation and the right-wing/Trump-leaning tendency of the MMA fanbase in general, it really would not surprise me to learn that there's a growing dislike of Kamaru Usman based on race and/or religion [as I'm guessing from his name and that he's given his daughter that he's of Hausa Muslim heritage].) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted July 13, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted July 13, 2020 Usman is recieving pelters for the weekend because he basically ruined the party. The Masvidal hype train rolled in (which I couldn't get on), it felt like the whole sports world tuned in to watch the culimation of this insane career turn around and Usman just spoiled it for everyone (except for wand). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted July 13, 2020 Author Paid Members Share Posted July 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, Egg Shen said: Usman just spoiled it for everyone (except for wand). I was as happy as Usyk playing with his balls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted July 13, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted July 13, 2020 7 minutes ago, Egg Shen said: Usman is recieving pelters for the weekend because he basically ruined the party. The Masvidal hype train rolled in (which I couldn't get on), it felt like the whole sports world tuned in to watch the culimation of this insane career turn around and Usman just spoiled it for everyone (except for wand). I'm not convinced that Colby Covington would've got the same pelters if he'd done what Usman did to Masvidal. And Covington is a weapons-grade cunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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