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Wrestling #MeToo #SpeakingOut


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Gents, there’s a whole lot I’d like to say but I’m advised not to. This is in hand and I stand by my allegations.

It was pretty clear to everyone else, to be fair.

.

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19 minutes ago, Ironic Indie Lad said:

Wait hold on? WHAT?!

Am I reading this right? Did Linus / @indysleaze do some sort of post where they admitted to sex pest / nonce behaviour?!

Three years ago, on Twitter, I had seen lots of men expressing surprise at the amount of women saying they’d had #MeToo experiences and I was trying to say that just because we didn’t consider some of our sexual interactions to be non-consensual - I was particularly referring to those handful of times in the mid-90s when I’d “pull” at a club, and we’d both be drunk - doesn’t mean that the women since that time might not have changed their opinion.

I made a big mess of the tweet and everything that came after it, and there’s not a day since that I don’t think about it and regret it.

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12 minutes ago, Linus said:

Three years ago, on Twitter, I had seen lots of men expressing surprise at the amount of women saying they’d had #MeToo experiences and I was trying to say that just because we didn’t consider some of our sexual interactions to be non-consensual - I was particularly referring to those handful of times in the mid-90s when I’d “pull” at a club, and we’d both be drunk - doesn’t mean that the women since that time might not have changed their opinion.

I made a big mess of the tweet and everything that came after it, and there’s not a day since that I don’t think about it and regret it.

Good, you should. Creep.

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56 minutes ago, Linus said:

Three years ago, on Twitter, I had seen lots of men expressing surprise at the amount of women saying they’d had #MeToo experiences and I was trying to say that just because we didn’t consider some of our sexual interactions to be non-consensual - I was particularly referring to those handful of times in the mid-90s when I’d “pull” at a club, and we’d both be drunk - doesn’t mean that the women since that time might not have changed their opinion.

I made a big mess of the tweet and everything that came after it, and there’s not a day since that I don’t think about it and regret it.

The #MeToo movement/campaign was for victims to come forward and use that to highlight their experiences, not for some absolute knobs to try and hijack it with their "Well, there was this time that I" and try and make it about themselves, as per fucking usual.

It was fucking rank.

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Part of the early #MeToo movement was around the fact that pretty much every woman has been in situations that ranged from guys being coercive dicks or putting pressure on them to assault and rape. A big part of it was about asking men to examine their behaviour and acknowledge that, even if they didn't realise it, they'd been part of the problem. 

I saw quite a large number of men talking about it at the time, and examining their own past behaviour, and acknowledging that, while they hadn't been predatory, they hadn't been good at it either. And that this was important, because it was acknowledging SO MUCH of men's behaviour to women was toxic to varying degrees. That it wasn't just people they'd heard of, or the dodgy guy in the club - that their friends and likely they have been less good at this than they thought.

It was partly about understanding and acknowledging a changing in understanding, and looking back with a new light at their younger behaviour, partly so they could try and be a better example going forward. And that included behaviour like getting drunk and waking up with someone and realising  that this means they weren't in a good place to judge active consent (even if all was fine). Or acknowledging any behaviour that, in retrospect, made someone uncomfortable, even if not predatory or intentional.

I haven't read Linus's post, so I'm not jumping in to go 'oh, it was fine'. But I can see how someone could try to do that and screw it up. It also WAS being talked about at the time more generally, so I don't think it's fair to say he was trying to make it about him at other people's expense. It was definitely an early part of the conversation, and then evolved past. It was partly about a lot of men shooting down the 'not all men' point by saying effectively 'it really is pretty much all men - I can see how some of my past behaviour might have made some women uncomfortable, and I'm sorry for that'.

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26 minutes ago, Chris B said:

Part of the early #MeToo movement was around the fact that pretty much every woman has been in situations that ranged from guys being coercive dicks or putting pressure on them to assault and rape. A big part of it was about asking men to examine their behaviour and acknowledge that, even if they didn't realise it, they'd been part of the problem. 

I saw quite a large number of men talking about it at the time, and examining their own past behaviour, and acknowledging that, while they hadn't been predatory, they hadn't been good at it either. And that this was important, because it was acknowledging SO MUCH of men's behaviour to women was toxic to varying degrees. That it wasn't just people they'd heard of, or the dodgy guy in the club - that their friends and likely they have been less good at this than they thought.

It was partly about understanding and acknowledging a changing in understanding, and looking back with a new light at their younger behaviour, partly so they could try and be a better example going forward. And that included behaviour like getting drunk and waking up with someone and realising  that this means they weren't in a good place to judge active consent (even if all was fine). Or acknowledging any behaviour that, in retrospect, made someone uncomfortable, even if not predatory or intentional.

I haven't read Linus's post, so I'm not jumping in to go 'oh, it was fine'. But I can see how someone could try to do that and screw it up. It also WAS being talked about at the time more generally, so I don't think it's fair to say he was trying to make it about him at other people's expense. It was definitely an early part of the conversation, and then evolved past. It was partly about a lot of men shooting down the 'not all men' point by saying effectively 'it really is pretty much all men - I can see how some of my past behaviour might have made some women uncomfortable, and I'm sorry for that'.

You make a good point as always Chris, and of course it is important to reflect on past behaviours and the movement was instrumental in highlighting that.

But, and I can't be arsed looking for the tweets and they've probably been deleted, at the time it very much felt like that person was trying to get themselves attention, and it didn't make for very nice reading (along with other bits and bobs around it).  "I'm pretty sure I've sexually assaulted someone"...well, pop to the police station then?

 

 

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If linus sleeping with drunk women in the 90s was the worst this forum had to deal with I'd be a happy man. It feels like we've had more beasts than London zoo over the years. 

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