Snitsky's back acne Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 I can watch a Benoit match but I struggle to watch the ones where Nancy is with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Factotum said: Just to add, I'm not sure Jericho is a 'Trump guy', I think he mentioned he's not really political he just had Trump Jr on as he found him interesting. He's not interesting. I would assume Jericho just has rather stupid views on stuff. He's the type who thinks he's the first person to say 'All Lives Matter' like its deep and meaningful Yeah, I think that’s the case with Jericho. Since his books and podcast and social media, it’s been more and more apparent that he’s a bit of a wanker and a bit of an idiot. He’s fascinating in terms of self-awareness, sometimes he seems to have none at all, and then other times he’ll turn his flaws and negative image into a positive. He’s currently the best thing in his promotion by playing a total comedy character, based on what a fat old deluded pisshead he comes across as in “real life.” I reckon he’s just fairly good at rolling with the punches, so when he can’t get out of a fuck-up, he just looks for the way to make it a positive going forward. Is he still working the Christian gimmick IRL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 Quite worrying through this is the amount of people saying they are gonna stop watching Jericho without doing any of their own investigating into what he thinks or says, just cause it’s been said here and taken as true. Find that approach causes far too many issues than it should online these days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakashi Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, Louch said: Quite worrying through this is the amount of people saying they are gonna stop watching Jericho without doing any of their own investigating into what he thinks or says, just cause it’s been said here and taken as true. Find that approach causes far too many issues than it should online these days If he is on video calling a Middle Eastern interviewer a “Hadji faggot”, what more investigation is needed? It’s not like it’s a rumour. It’s documented on video. Doubling down on AllLivesMatter after he got backlash is another example of his tone deaf stubbornness or blatant baiting. You get one chance to be educated on it, which he was by multiple people, and if you still push it then you’re a twat. He eventually did an explanation video but, by then and because of his history, I find it impossible to see it sincerely and it seems like he’s just doing it because he thinks he has to/has been told to. Hopefully I’m wrong because I love watching him on tv and it’s a shame to just see a racist homophobe instead of what I’d probably call a genuine wrestling genius, as far as that could exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 7 minutes ago, Yakashi said: Doubling down on AllLivesMatter after he got backlash is another example of his tone deaf stubbornness or blatant baiting. At first he might have thought it was good shit for his feud with Mike Tyson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PJ Power Posted June 5, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted June 5, 2020 In general? No, up to a certain, blurred point. When it comes to wrestlers, or any other professional entertainers like actors, I have no major interest in what they believe or espouse beyond their work unless it is a necessary, integral part of their profession. Wrestling, in particular, is an industry that is not only seen generally as downmarket and can get away with stuff that would ruin the careers of other sportspeople, actors or writers etc. but also working with gimmicks especially in 21st century indie & big-league promotions can have the real/gimmick line so easily blurred. For example, Daniel Bryan once stated on the original NXT that he was a socialist, but is he really? TBH I'm not concerned. Kofi Kingston's support of the US Republican party (prior to Trump hijacking it) doesn't concern me either. However as already mentioned several times, it's much more morally and intellectually difficult to justify with Chris Benoit, as well as some other wrestlers like Austin, Michael's, Davey Boy Smith, Jim Neidhart, the Dynamite Kid etc. whom at least at one period of their lives just came across as cunts. I guess this progresses into other areas of media - the most infamous one being Morrisey - I still like to listen to the music of The Smiths but still hate the cunt behind the microphone because Marr, Rourke & Joyce deserve to stand in their own right for that music. It's a lot more difficult to justify that with the Lost prophets, however. Something similar concerning the Gallagher brothers. In their Oasis days, Noel was, other than attending a No. 10 party hosted by Tony Blair, generally apolitical other than clearly not liking the Tories. In the last decade however he's stared moving towards much more right of centre political positions albeit still not keen on the Conservatives. On the other hand, Liam who was very much apolitical in his early years is more vocal in his political outlook esp. concerning Brexit and general current affairs without going overboard I still like bits of their individual music to this day (love "Once" by Liam) but if you told me ten years ago Liam would come across as the more sensible of the two, come 2020, I wouldn't have believed you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaitoRyo Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 If you're going to watch only the matches of folks who haven't done anything dodgy in their past (or present), you're going to be watching a very small list of performers. With Benoit, I've changed my stance over the years. After it happened, I could watch his matches. But I was sixteen when it all went down and I was training to be a wrestler. I didn't truly grasp the magnitude of what he had done, even though I knew it was obviously horrible, and sought out his matches as a way of studying the 'right' way to wrestle. He was a favourite of mine, after Eddie, and I was absolutely gutted when he died. Didn't help that I was in Floriday on a family holiday at the time and you couldn't fucking escape coverage of it. Looking at his matches, it's obviously not the 'right' way to wrestle, either, since he broke down his body and damaged his brain so severely. As Astro and others have said, it's hard to watch now and see him taking chairs to the head, doing the diving headbutt and so on and not wonder 'did that result in another concussion?'. Since leaving wrestling in 2013 I've not bothered watching his matches. They're pretty much an automatic fast-forward for me. I've also had kids in recent years and that definitely changes perspective when thinking about what he did. I don't think I could watch or appreciate the work or art of any wrestler, musician, author or filmmaker, if I knew they had killed their child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 41 minutes ago, Yakashi said: If he is on video calling a Middle Eastern interviewer a “Hadji faggot”, what more investigation is needed? It’s not like it’s a rumour. It’s documented on video. Doubling down on AllLivesMatter after he got backlash is another example of his tone deaf stubbornness or blatant baiting. You get one chance to be educated on it, which he was by multiple people, and if you still push it then you’re a twat. He eventually did an explanation video but, by then and because of his history, I find it impossible to see it sincerely and it seems like he’s just doing it because he thinks he has to/has been told to. Hopefully I’m wrong because I love watching him on tv and it’s a shame to just see a racist homophobe instead of what I’d probably call a genuine wrestling genius, as far as that could exist. That wasn’t my point tho was it, that’s story wasn’t shared here before you posted it, it was just he likes trump then a few replies of people saying they will skip his work going forward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted June 5, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted June 5, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, SaitoRyo said: If you're going to watch only the matches of folks who haven't done anything dodgy in their past (or present), you're going to be watching a very small list of performers. I remember on Twitter, people were protesting against some nonce/racist/wrong'un/all of the above getting bookings, and someone replied saying, "if you protest against every bad person in wrestling, soon you'll only be able to watch Daniel Bryan and Ricky Steamboat!". Which sounds fine, to be honest. @PJ Power bringing up Morrissey is an interesting one - the more he outs himself as an utter cunt, the less inclined I feel to listen to any of his music. I'd still probably put The Queen Is Dead among my all-time favourite albums, but I can't remember the last time I felt the need to listen to it. And far moreso for his solo material - it would feel a bit grubby listening to him singing "ENGLAND FOR THE ENGLISH" without being able to excuse it as ironic distance. Edited June 5, 2020 by BomberPat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaitoRyo Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 1 minute ago, BomberPat said: I remember on Twitter, people were protesting against some nonce/racist/wrong'un/all of the above getting bookings, and someone replied saying, "if you protest against every bad person in wrestling, soon you'll only be able to watch Daniel Bryan and Ricky Steamboat!". Which sounds fine, to be honest. I'd watch that every day and twice on Sundays! It's true though. Most wrestlers, particularly of eras gone by, have either said or done or been involvement in some not very nice things. For me, there's a scale to it. People aren't perfect and they make mistakes and you can definitely forgive a performer for being an idiot or doing something bad but that they then apologise and make up for. With someone like Benoit, it was not a mistake. He killed his wife and child. P.S. I'm not trying to get into a discussion or argument with anyone about how or why the Benoit tragedy went down. Not interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Factotum Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 45 minutes ago, PJ Power said: but if you told me ten years ago Liam would come across as the more sensible of the two, come 2020, I wouldn't have believed you. You mean Liam who has openly threatened Noel's wife and kid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snitsky's back acne Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 I think its a fascinating study of fandom and idolitry as much as anything. As an example I think Michael Jackson is a fucking brilliant singer, song writer and performer and therefore find myself making excuses for him when all of the child abuse stuff comes up 'He was never convicted, he was abused as a child, he had mental health issues' etc. However I was never a Lost Prophets fan, for instance, so can easily condemn and find myself absolutely disgusted by everything Ian Watkins did. Yet there are those who still believe Benoit didnt do it or that Hulk was 'just having a bad day' etc. Its excusing what they likely otherwise would not excuse were these people NOT Chris Benoit and Hulk Hogan, if that makes sense. Dont know the 'answer' necessarily just think it is a fascinating insight into human behaviour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Of Swing Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 It's definitely become more of an issue for me as the years have gone by. I can still watch most wrestlers regardless of their views or actions but I find myself thinking about them more than I used to. My stance on Benoit in particular has always been I'll watch if he's on a show I'm watching but I won't actively seek out anything he is involved in. Hulk Hogan as another example is an utter prick but I could probably go back and watch his 80's and 90's stuff without too much issue but I wouldn't entertain watching anything he was involved with today. If anything I find myself more critical of the employers these days. The never ending stream of shitty actions over the years for example have pretty much outright killed WWE to me. AEW, DDT/TJPW, New Japan and Stardom is all I really watch with any regularity now but I'm under no illusion that they are truly any different from any other business and the people running things would all probably go full Vince on the industry if they got the chance. Ultimately pro wrestling is a shitty business and that's probably never changing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members DEF Posted June 5, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted June 5, 2020 2 hours ago, King Pitcos said: Yeah, I think that’s the case with Jericho. Since his books and podcast and social media, it’s been more and more apparent that he’s a bit of a wanker and a bit of an idiot. He’s fascinating in terms of self-awareness, sometimes he seems to have none at all, and then other times he’ll turn his flaws and negative image into a positive. He’s currently the best thing in his promotion by playing a total comedy character, based on what a fat old deluded pisshead he comes across as in “real life.” I reckon he’s just fairly good at rolling with the punches, so when he can’t get out of a fuck-up, he just looks for the way to make it a positive going forward. Is he still working the Christian gimmick IRL? This is sort of how I think of him. If you listen to his Nyla Rose pod he really struggled with separating the idea of gender and sexuality and made a number of uneducated assumptions that Nyla schooled him on. I feel like he's both opinionated and ignorant on a lot more subjects than he would care to admit to. It did also come across that at least where Nyla was concerned he did actually listen and reframe his understanding. I'm at least hopeful that this is case here but then I don't actually know what he tweeted and what not. Hopefully it turns out hes sorry for being an utter cretin rather than an unrepentant racist peice of shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted June 5, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted June 5, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Louch said: Quite worrying through this is the amount of people saying they are gonna stop watching Jericho without doing any of their own investigating into what he thinks or says, just cause it’s been said here and taken as true. Find that approach causes far too many issues than it should online these days Almost all the wrestling related news that comes through here is stuff that has come from official social media accounts and much read news sources. How much investigating can one do into whether Chris Jericho called someone a sexual and racial slur in the same insult? Plus who here has actually said, "Oh I read it on the 'Keff so I hate him now!"? Nobody. Edited June 5, 2020 by Devon Malcolm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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