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Does a wrestler’s personal views affect how you view them as a performer?


RedRooster

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It does I can honestly say watching any Styles, Austin, Hogan or Bret Hart match I have it in the back of my head but it doesn't exclude me from enjoying there work.

The exception to that are Snuka and in particular Benoit in which it heavily effects there enjoyment of there matches. Not that I can never watch anything they have featured in but I will actively steer clear of there work.

Perfect example the years following the Mania 20 triple threat it would of been a top 3 favourite match for me. I haven't watched it since Benoit done the deed.

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32 minutes ago, Astro Hollywood said:

That said, just knowing Taker is a Blue Lives Matter bell-end put me right off wanting to watch a documentary about him. But anyone pro-Trump is an instant no for me. No coming back from that.

Same here. Haven't even contemplated watching it since hearing that.

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The older I get the less I want to watch anyone who I know has shit views or has done shit things. Taker, Hogan, Austin, HBK, Benoit, Jericho, Lawler, Warrior all have done things or support things which I just find disgusting. I am sure there are many more I could list.

Separating the artist from the person is a cop out in my opinion. 

Of course I am also a massive hypocrite as I watch AEW but will likely start skipping Jericho's parts as I did not know about his views. 

Fuck sake man get Sammy away from him so I can enjoy that loveable little shit. 

Edited by Joe Blog
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35 minutes ago, ElCece said:

It does I can honestly say watching any Styles, Austin, Hogan or Bret Hart match I have it in the back of my head but it doesn't exclude me from enjoying there work.

The exception to that are Snuka and in particular Benoit in which it heavily effects there enjoyment of there matches. Not that I can never watch anything they have featured in but I will actively steer clear of there work.

Perfect example the years following the Mania 20 triple threat it would of been a top 3 favourite match for me. I haven't watched it since Benoit done the deed.

Apologies if I'm forgetting something obvious but what's Bret Hart done that'd possibly put you off enjoying his matches? 

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Benoit was my favourite wrestler from about 99 through to his death. I knew he had a rep for being a bit of a twat, but I put it down to WRESTLING~ and them all being a bit shit really.

 

Then it all came out what happened that night. As much as we know for sure, obviously (and by that I dont mean hes fucking being framed or any of that shit). That was the day I started to pull back from it all. I understand that the brain damage played a big part in what happened, but he was already a pretty sadistic twat from all accounts, so maybe he would have done it anyway? But I sure as hell wouldnt want him in any HOF, I cant get behind that shit even if I dont vilify him as much as some (again, not excusing his actions at all).  I have tried to watch his matches since, and I admit I get dragged in... until a swan dive or a chair shot, then I have to turn off.

 

Now I struggle to watch wrestling, knowing how wrong so many people were, and those that arent may be after the head injuries. 

 

Annoying, I want to be a fan. 

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14 minutes ago, Pogue said:

Apologies if I'm forgetting something obvious but what's Bret Hart done that'd possibly put you off enjoying his matches? 

I thought Bret is odd in that list. I presume it's the adultery but even that is out of place on that list.

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Social Media must've had a huge affect on peoples opinions as they become "regular" people with real opinions on views.

We often put people on a pedestal and think they aren't "real" but then they become tainted when they have views that differ to our own.

Other than the real crimes that they've commited (murder/rape) I right or wrong don't get affected by someones political views or what they believe if it differs to mine.

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I think the difference between Benoit and the others (beside the severity of the crime) is the degree to which you could argue wrestling fandom is complicit. Benoit's ring style was probably the reason most people supported him. It was also, possibly, what led to him committing his crimes. He got a pass for his weird behaviour out of the ring that was often covered in newsletters and was also part of the group that took liberties with Daniel Puder. I don't ever remember there being a fan backlash against any of that. 

The other problem is the character he played. The Crippler or the Rabid Wolverine was clearly his personality but not turned to 11. 

I don't think you make that case with most of the others. I'm not sure supporting Punk plays a part in him being a miserable bastard or watching The Undertaker makes him an old right wing Texan with stupid views. They would have probably been that anyway. 

 

 

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Man, I didn't know that about Jericho. I've read all his books and followed his career closely, and for the most part he seems like a pretty sound, intelligent dude, besides his propensity for downing vodka like it's water and making a bit of an ass of himself. Before this, I thought the biggest black mark against him was still believing Benoit was a good dude, but then again they were very close friends for about 20 years. Personally, killing someone would earn anyone a swift boot from my friendship circle, but I can understand how it could be difficult to accept that someone so close to you could do something so horrific, especially in this weird world of wrestling. But supporting Trump, I don't get that, unless they became real buddy-buddy around the time Trump bought Raw or got inducted in the WWE HOF.

Besides Jericho, the overall question is an interesting one. I used to be the biggest Chris Benoit fan, but I find it hard to watch his matches sometimes now. As mentioned earlier in the topic, there's a direct link between the damage he's doing to himself and his actions in his final days. But Austin? Yeah, I still really enjoy his stuff, even though he smacked Debra around. Not right but I get caught up in the "glass shatters, drink a beer, flip someone off, Stunner". Currently watching Attitude Era and all his work is electric. Might be a little different once I get to 2001 and he starts interacting with Debra on-screen and leathering Lita with a steel chair.

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5 hours ago, IANdrewDiceClay said:

Wrestling is sort of the one area you can get away with still enjoying absolute scumbags, because you sort of leave your morals at the door when watching it.

This more or less sums it up for me. You're wasting your time trying to enjoy watching wrestling whilst adopting a strong moral code. There would be no good wrestling left for you, pretty much all the best ones were wrong 'uns.

Wrestling has always been escapism for me, I can separate it from reality and live with that quite happily.

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I've felt absolutely no desire to watch a Chris Benoit match since he died. It's not like it's some great moral stance where I refuse to, there's just lots of other wrestling to watch, and I know I wouldn't enjoy watching a guy driving his head into the mat over and over again knowing that it's most likely all adding to what eventually happened. That's not a "separate the art from the artist" thing for me, where a great writer or artist could have been an absolute monster but their work still has value, because the "art" is inexorably linked to what was wrong with the artist. I can listen to Roy Harper's "When An Old Cricketer Leaves The Crease" til the cows come home, but if he had a song celebrating his possible noncing, I wouldn't get much joy out of that.

 

For others, it's a more personal thing, or relies more on distance from the thing. I watched Eddy Guerrero & Art Barr vs. El Hijo del Santo & Octagon the other day, and enjoyed it even though I know Art Barr was a wrong'un. But the match was 25 years ago, and Art's been dead for years. If I saw an indie show had booked someone with a similar track record, I wouldn't want to give them my money, and would make that pretty clear. 

A friend of mine worked the infamous Blackcraft Wrestling show over Wrestlemania weekend last year, so I watched it to support him, but found myself skipping at least three or four matches because they featured Nazis, domestic abusers, nonces, and Teddy Hart. I skipped pretty much anything I was watching over Wrestlemania weekend that had Teddy Hart in it. Makes no odds to anyone at that point, as they've already got my money, but I also don't want to spend my time watching someone like that.

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Just to add, I'm not sure Jericho is a 'Trump guy', I think he mentioned he's not really political he just had Trump Jr on as he found him interesting. He's not interesting.

I would assume Jericho just has rather stupid views on stuff. He's the type who thinks he's the first person to say 'All Lives Matter' like its deep and meaningful

Edited by Factotum
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I don't have Twitter so no idea what he's directly said.

But Jericho might be open minded, he's well travelled and has a wide variety of guests on his podcast with varied options, of course could be bs listening to them but he does engage and seem interested so in the topics.

Fuck knows just a thought.

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Jericho has a range of guests on, he likely has a producer who gets request on and he thought why not hear what he has to say. It’s not like he ramming his views down everyone’s throat on his shows. I’m really not one for jumping to dislike anyone for having different views, the world is too tribal in pick a side these days. I have mates I agree with lots on, and some I agree with little on. People make mistakes and errors and views over time. I don’t vote for the same party I did when I was 18, I don’t believe everything the same way I did when I was younger. I don’t use terms that were common 15-20 years ago to slag mates with. I don’t expect everyone in the world to hold my views, and someone doing a slightly bad thing now and again doesn't make them a completely bad person. Some actions get forgiveness, some don’t. We are all welcome to draw our own lines, but over think them too much and I’d expect you would get to enjoy very little. 

 

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