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UFC 250: Nunes vs Spencer - Jun 6 🇺🇸

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For the record, Cody specifically accused TJ of using EPO in April of 2018, a year before the Cejudo fight. 

Quote

 

In a since-deleted tweet from last year ahead of their rematch at UFC 227, Cody went once step further, naming the exact substance that Dillashaw would test positive for a year later. (Courtesy of Aaron Bronsteter of TSN Sports)

Cody Garbrandt posted this on Twitter in April of 2018, specifically accusing Dillashaw of using EPO. pic.twitter.com/fiBXf3Z45z

— Aaron Bronsteter (@aaronbronsteter) April 9, 2019 - https://punditarena.com/mma/ccunningham/dillashaw-garbrandt-faber/

 

Coincidence? Probably not. 

Of course, that isn't to say that TJ isn't the better fighter (he is)

I don't think either came out of the feud looking good. One is on a 3 fight losing streak and the other is serving a lengthy suspension. 

 

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I went back to the thread we had on this at the time and I said the same as David about him probably using PEDs for the Cejudo fight because he was cutting down to 125. That was when it was only reported that he’d failed a test and it came out shortly after that it was EPO he popped for. 

Obviously we don’t know for certain if he’d used it before or not. And I also just put Cody’s accusations down to him being bitter TJ battered him twice initially. But I don’t know, he’d been saying that stuff about TJ for ages. There was the April 2018 accusation as Jim mentioned there; 

4-EA391-E2-FA41-4171-93-C9-96-E7-A4-E5-C

That was about 8 months before USADA got Dillashaw and he even named the PED. 

But it goes back further than that. This is from the UFC 217 press conference in November 2017. Before they fought the first time. 

So it wasn’t about being bitter about the losses back then. They were 0-0 at this point. I’m sure there were tweets going back to late 2016 as well. It didn’t just start after TJ smashed him up. 

Garbrandt’s a twat but I don’t rate his intelligence enough to believe he could concoct some smear campaign like this and just get lucky that it came true. There probably was something to it. I’ve always said that I do think it’s funny that the Alpha Male lot didn’t start chirping until things went sour with TJ and Ludwig but that doesn’t mean there isn’t validity to the claims either. If they knew he was cheating, they must’ve been fine with it until he left the team. They’re all cocks. But it just seems like too much of a coincidence to me that a knuckle dragging dummy Cody called all this a year or more in advance and then it all came true. It’s just too convenient for me. 

Maybe it was the first time TJ had used EPO because he was dropping down to Flyweight (still doesn’t make it right regardless) but I have a hard time believing it given the accusations months previously of him using that specific drug. He got caught that time but EPO wasn’t always being tested for (was it?) and with there being a short window of time to catch it on a test, there’s a good chance he’d probably used it before but it wasn’t detectable by the time the Piss Police came knocking. All speculation but I have a feeling there was more to it with TJ. 

Anyway, all I meant in my original comment was that those TJ fights might’ve done irreversible damage to Cody and if TJ was on stuff back then as well, it’s hard not to feel bad for him. 

And in going back to the thread on the matter at the time, you said very similar to me David. And even went as far as to say you wouldn’t be against TJ being banned for life. 

On 4/10/2019 at 5:09 PM, David said:

Personally, for drug cheating as clear cut as this, with a PED as effective as this, I wouldn't be against him being banned for life. This isn't something that he's popped for that could be explained away like 99% of the failures we see. This is one of the rare ones where the fighter has went in with the intention of cheating without doubt, and as such he should be hammered for that.

Even as much as some of us may not like Garbrandt either, you have to feel for him too. If this shit has been at play during their fight he's suffered two heavy stoppage losses, and even if they decided to retest any old samples and overturn any results, the effects of those knockout blows can't be removed. Those kind of shots shorten careers.

I know opinions change but you said almost exactly the same there as my point that you’re now disagreeing with. 

B63A5C76-58A2-483B-B014-5CCCE885539A.jpeg

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50 minutes ago, Egg Shen said:

how is it excuse making if he made the accusations before they'd even fought though? you just addressed this then made the same claim?😄

Because it is excuse-making. Cody believes that the reason he got outclassed and dropped twice is because he believes Dillashaw was on PED's. In his mind he wins both those fights if TJ is clean (which he was, officially).

48 minutes ago, ColinBollocks said:

Yeah. My point isn't really about that argument, rather on the subject of the rise of EPO and these cardio beasts (we all know who they are). I don't know how long TJ has been on the stuff, but we saw with Cejudo that it doesn't mean you automatically get a win for using it. However, I'd be surprised if it was just a one off.

I tend to believe the narrative that Dillashaw jumped in with the EPO due to the weight cut to face Cejudo. I'll see if I can find the Athletic piece that discusses the matter in detail, but it talks to people who were sparring him at the time, coaches etc, all of whom said he took the fight because it was seen as a big bout, but later realised he couldn't make the cut and maintain anything like the performance he would at his proper weight class.

The gist of the piece is that for the money and the prestige of the fight it was seen by not just Dillashaw, but other fighters (who spoke to the reporter anonymously) as a risk worth taking. The question throughout was "how far will these guys go, in a relatively short career that promises nothing but injuries and health issues at the end of it, to make serious coin?"

It all leads back to the same story, which is that these dudes are underpaid by the UFC. I'll try to find it, it's an interesting read.

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If you can, please do. I have a sub to The Athletic but rarely check out their MMA content.

Obviously is hard to argue the point if he did or didn't take anything prior to Cejudo, as he was tested and nowt came back. He very well maybe didn't.

Edited by ColinBollocks

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Just now, ColinBollocks said:

If you can, please do. I have a sub to The Athletic but rarely check out their MMA content.

Seriously? It's one of the only reasons I have it. Their MMA and boxing coverage is awesome.

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Honestly, it's mostly due to the abundance of hacks in MMA I've read over the past few years, which has led me to turn my nose up at most content/coverage these days. If it's of similar quality to their boxing/football content then I'll definitely read a bit more.

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5 minutes ago, ColinBollocks said:

Honestly, it's mostly due to the abundance of hacks in MMA I've read over the past few years, which has led me to turn my nose up at most content/coverage these days. If it's of similar quality to their boxing/football content then I'll definitely read a bit more.

The majority of MMA sites are terrible, but The Athletic has basically put together the Harlem Globetrotters of MMA journalism.

Chad Dundas, Ben Fowlkes, Shaheen Al-Shatti, Chuck Mindenhall (the man in the hat), and perennial moaning-faced twat Josh Gross.

And, more importantly, no Luke Thomas.

Edited by David

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17 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

I’ve always said that I do think it’s funny that the Alpha Male lot didn’t start chirping until things went sour with TJ and Ludwig but that doesn’t mean there isn’t validity to the claims either. If they knew he was cheating, they must’ve been fine with it until he left the team.

This probably explains why Faber chose his words very carefully when discussing the matter. 

Quote

 

“As far Cody saying the steroid thing etc., these are conversations that, and I’ve heard conversations that have gone in between, you know, within the team, that I wasn’t a part of, so I can’t say my thing about it.

“If you guys want to know the details about what Cody is talking about, you’re going to have to get that from him because, you know, I was kinda the patriarch of the team, so if something shady is going on, no one would tell me about it.

“I’ve heard some things that have made me lose some respect, absolutely, but it’s not my place to say about conversations that were had or things that were said or things that were done when I wasn’t actually there in the know, you know.” 

..................................................................

“I fought TJ Dillashaw for 8 years, every day. Dude I’ll smoke TJ Dillashaw. He looks like a prepubescent little teenager right now because USADA came in. You look like a chubby.”

When pushed for an answer by Cruz, Faber retracted his statement slightly, saying “I don’t know if he was or not” before later claiming “it’s very obvious.” 

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who knows? going from what Dillashaw's podcast with Joe Rogan prior to Cejudo its very clear that Dillashaw is a very clued up person when it comes to nutrition and how the body functions. 

Be interested to see if Bellator fighter Juan Archuleta would have tested postive around the same time.

DwhNi5EVsAAmcTk.jpg

that picture was posted to twitter 9 days before Dillashaw failed his test. Both were like lab rats training at the Treigning Lab. The Rogan podcast was a few weeks later. 

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You should know by now Ebb that taking PED's isn't really anything to do with body type or how shredded someone is. Look at the people who've failed tests before and you'll see that they come in all shapes and sizes.

Looking the way they do in that photo, that's just a result of dropping a hell of a lot of weight and having next to no body fat. It can be done perfectly naturally, but where the problem comes in is when you need the stamina and endurance to fight for 25 minutes.

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Ebb still has a point. I wouldn't be shocked if Archuleta was also using EPO.

Around that time, Archuleta was cutting a lot of weight to make the BW weight limit. Thus, he would have had the same issues with stamina that TJ had at Flyweight (and possibly BW). 

Edited by jimufctna24

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Just now, jimufctna24 said:

Ebb still has a point. I wouldn't be shocked if Archuleta was also using EPO.

Around that time, Archuleta was cutting a lot of weight to make the BW weight limit. Thus, he would have had the same issues with stamina that TJ had at Flyweight (and possibly BW). 

No, the era of looking at someone's physique and commenting on them using PED's died when the likes of Josh Barnett got busted numerous times. Ebb posted that image, which suggests an old-fashioned view of "look how ripped he is, bro! Must be juicing!" 

There's plenty of fighters and other athletes who look ripped as fuck and aren't on anything. It's not a valid indicator of who's on what.

Besides, Dillashaw wasn't taking EPO to look ripped, he would have looked ripped regardless simply because he's an athlete who had trimmed his body fat down to practically nothing making the cut to a lower weight class.

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5 minutes ago, David said:

No, the era of looking at someone's physique and commenting on them using PED's died when the likes of Josh Barnett got busted numerous times. Ebb posted that image, which suggests an old-fashioned view of "look how ripped he is, bro! Must be juicing!" 

Was Ebb really suggesting that though? I thought he was merely suggesting that the pair were training at the same camp, for which sounds like an experimental training camp of sorts. I then added that the two encountered similar issues in regards to weight cuts. Hence why I believe that Archuleta could have also been using EPO. 

I'll let Ebb answer whether or not he was implying that their physiques represented that something was off? Or, as I suspect, that he was merely pointing out that the pair were training together at that time. 

 

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55 minutes ago, David said:

You should know by now Ebb that taking PED's isn't really anything to do with body type or how shredded someone is. Look at the people who've failed tests before and you'll see that they come in all shapes and sizes.

Looking the way they do in that photo, that's just a result of dropping a hell of a lot of weight and having next to no body fat. It can be done perfectly naturally, but where the problem comes in is when you need the stamina and endurance to fight for 25 minutes.

what are you on about? the photo was taken 9 days before Dillashaw failed his test for EPO, you dont think him being on EPO at the time didnt aid in him in looking like that? 

Archuleta was his main training partner, go listen to the Rogan podcast they were doing everything together in that mental guy's garage. I wouldnt at all be surprised if they were both on it.

Edited by Egg Shen

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48 minutes ago, Egg Shen said:

what are you on about? the photo was taken 9 days before Dillashaw failed his test for EPO, you dont think him being on EPO at the time didnt aid in him in looking like that?

No, I don't. He'd have looked like that regardless. He was cutting an insane amount of weight, was operating on close to zero bodyfat before the weigh-in. He's looking as shredded regardless of the EPO, because that's a result of the weight cut.

As I said, the whole "look test" is mostly a fallacy. It tells us nothing. Look at Barnett, and that fat fuck Russian dude who got busted for PED's. Both of them look like out of shape dads. 

Dillashaw is dangerously underweight there, and that's a result of cutting too much weight and lack of water. He'd have looked like that regardless of the EPO, because in reality he looks fucking terrible. 

In fact, he probably was helped that the fight didn't go as long as it could have. The effects of trying to fight in that kind of state alone is dangerous, with the effects extreme weightcutting has on the brain and the ability to absorb punches. Chuck in the risks you run using EPO, such as a stroke or a cerebral embolism and it's a disaster waiting to happen.

If anything, he was a danger to himself more than anyone else.

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