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56 minutes ago, air_raid said:

“WrestleMania moment” can get in the bin.

Can you imagine Gorilla Monsoon screaming "This is a Wrestlemania moment" during Macho Man and Elizabeth reuniting or Hulk slamming Andre. They become moments automatically if they mean something. But when they keep saying it like they have for the past 20 years then the moment does not feel like a genuine one.

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I reckon there were various WWF commentary catchphrases that I heard as a kid and assumed were commonly-used phrases. I vaguely remember describing everything as a miscarriage of justice for a bit.

Yeah, @dopper, not cool to refer to birds as "females" these days.

Getting anti-WWE fans to view NXT as a separate entity that they can watch to spite Vinny Mac remains one of the greatest works of the last decade. The best example I always think of are those, “

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18 hours ago, MEGABUCKS said:

Can you imagine Gorilla Monsoon screaming "This is a Wrestlemania moment" during Macho Man and Elizabeth reuniting or Hulk slamming Andre. They become moments automatically if they mean something. But when they keep saying it like they have for the past 20 years then the moment does not feel like a genuine one.

This is going to be unpopular, but I blame Jim Ross. I have a half-memory of him ad-libbing “This is a WrestleMania moment” but I’m not sure exactly over what, and they ran with it, and ran it into the ground.

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12 hours ago, air_raid said:

This is going to be unpopular, but I blame Jim Ross. I have a half-memory of him ad-libbing “This is a WrestleMania moment” but I’m not sure exactly over what, and they ran with it, and ran it into the ground.

I'm pretty sure the flashbulbs for Hogan/Rock, and yeah it was very off the cuff. It wasn't even particularly said with much enthusiasm. It was a genuine call, all the better for it. 

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9 minutes ago, Gay as FOOK said:

I'm pretty sure the flashbulbs for Hogan/Rock, and yeah it was very off the cuff. It wasn't even particularly said with much enthusiasm. It was a genuine call, all the better for it. 

That’s WWE all over though. They find something good/that works and milk it for all it’s worth til it becomes annoying or loses its impact. 
 

Watching this video reminded me of it. 25 years of stunners. The early ones looked like they would actually hurt. Then the Rock and a couple of others bump dramatically for it, next minute everyone is. 
 

 

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On 1/10/2021 at 1:19 AM, garynysmon said:

And that looking and/or pointing at the sign shit.

Someone claimed in an interview that no one in WWE had ever been told to point at the sign, and even by wrestling standards it's transparently bollocks. People do it every fucking show from January to March, and have done ever since Triple H and The Undertaker did it. In among how micromanaged everything else is, the idea that half the roster - many of whom must know how tedious and overdone it is - are just spontaneously pointing to the sign and the production truck are focusing on it every time, is just utterly unbelievable.

"Wrestlemania Moments" are just a symptom of how dreadful Wrestlemania has become because they no longer treat it as the climax of major stories, or the pay-off of long-term storytelling. It's a seven hour show, but it only exists to book a three minute highlight reel. Nothing matters beyond those few clips that they'll repeat for the rest of the year.

The rot probably set in much earlier, but the real turning point for me was Wrestlemania 32. The League of Nations won a six-man tag match, only to immediately get made to look like idiots by three retired old blokes for a cheap pop. Later in the same show, Bray Wyatt - still clinging to some sense of credibility as a menacing horror heel - gets needlessly ridiculed by The Rock, after he rocks up with a flamethrower before the main event, even though the show is already massively over-running, and then one of the biggest men on the roster gets squashed in seconds by a guy who hasn't wrestled since. Nobody gained anything from any of those "moments", and most people probably forgot they even happened, but they got Austin and Rock in the highlight reel, and that's the main thing.

The thing is, that year you had The Social Outcasts knocking about as a comedy jobber stable. If they needed some heels to take a Stunner or get battered about by The Rock, that was their exact purpose, but instead they throw actual useful heels that they want us to take seriously under the bus because nothing has any thought put into it at all.

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2 hours ago, boshealecta said:

25 years of stunners. The early ones looked like they would actually hurt. Then the Rock and a couple of others bump dramatically for it, next minute everyone is. 

Definitely jot me down for this one too.

When the Stone Cold Stunner made its first appearances in 1996, wrestlers were taking it as a jarring move and selling their necks/chins in a way it probably should be. 

An unpopular opinion maybe but I can't stand how the Rock sold it, flipping himself off against the nearest rope. Just looks stupid. Not too convinced on Scott Hall's either, but my favourite is Jerry Lawler most definitely. 

Even Jim Ross sold it better than most of them! 

 

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As much as I hate Hall and The Rock's selling of the stunner, seeing Santino sell it with the salute always makes me smile and it at least fits his daft character. Shane McMahon always seemed to take the move well, Angles looks good and Foley sells it like a gunshot to the head.

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Fucking hell, that Bret one looked murderous.

I enjoy looking back at the debuts of moves, and the difference in the Stunner is really interesting. That desperate scrabbling to hit the move could have been a great thing to revisit when Austin was doing his paranoid bully thing later on, post-heel turn. All it would've taken is someone to counter that leading kick one time to convince Austin his gig was up, and make him obsessed with hitting it any way he could. It could've been a nice twist on the gag that he only had a few moves in his set!

That does lead onto a petty annoyance (that may have been covered; we're on page 15) - setup taunts or moves. Orton banging the mat or Reigns sitting in the corner waiting to roar as loud as he can are bad enough for tells, but every time a wrestler hits the same setup move, I think it makes the opponent look a dope for not doing his prep and seeing it coming. Of course, I think the lower down the card you are, you 'know your place' and take it, but if you're up top or even on the way up, you get the right to show a bit of smarts and have the other guy work for it. Catching off guard, hitting it out of the blue, or even just succumbing to exhaustion and not being fast enough to counter, there are plenty of options. If the same thing cues the same thing, it's just another thing that highlights how orchestrated it all is.

Similarly, setup taunts that ALWAYS cue a counter. Orton, I'm looking at you again. Why bother?

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2 minutes ago, CavemanLynn said:

Similarly, setup taunts that ALWAYS cue a counter. Orton, I'm looking at you again. Why bother?

This was true of Shawn Michaels' stomp before the Superkick, too. You'd always hear fans saying "surely you'd just move out of the way when you heard him stomping the mat", but actually, people always did.

It's one of those things that I can completely justify from a match structure/psychology perspective - the taunt tells the audience to expect a big move coming, so it builds their anticipation, the counter then takes away the fulfilment of that expectation but in such a way that keeps the audience interest high rather than completely deflating them, so when the move is then hit "out of nowhere" you get an even bigger pop because you've kept them on tenterhooks ever since the set-up - but makes very little sense if you try and see it from the point of view of the character Randy Orton.

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2 hours ago, BomberPat said:

Someone claimed in an interview that no one in WWE had ever been told to point at the sign

First thing that came to mind was Randy Orton repositioning three times until they were happy with the framing
 

 

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3 hours ago, BomberPat said:

Someone claimed in an interview that no one in WWE had ever been told to point at the sign, and even by wrestling standards it's transparently bollocks.

There was definitely an incident in the last few years where you could hear a referee giving the direction "point at the sign" to someone who'd just won the Rumble. Think it was Nakamura.

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10 hours ago, cobra_gordo said:

Shane McMahon always seemed to take the move well,

Shane's was always fun if he had a beer or some sort of drink in his mouth as it would spray up like a fountain, Unforgiven 2000 srings to mind when he realised that Austin wasn't buying his bullshit about Blackman

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