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Hannibal Scorch

Acceptable behaviour at live shows

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There's seems to be some disagreement on how much notice Eaver actually gave. There are two conflicting first-hand accounts out there. Where I stand on that situation entirely depends on how much warning fans were given.

As for acceptable behaviour, I draw the line on personal abuse. If you're going to have a go, direct it towards the character being portrayed, not the actual performer. Obviously, you don't get physical and you don't stray into racism, homophobia or mysoginy. Likewise, wrestlers should act within the realms of their character and not stray into personal abuse, respond in the context of confines of the show.

With regards to the physical side, I do like it myself just because it immerses you within the show. I've had my pint punched in by Spike Trivet, people whipped in my direction (with warning) and have had a little shove from Pete Dunne - all of it just part of the show, never, ever any genuine malace and all of it left a smile on my face which I'm sure the performers intended. 

This theory you go to wrestling to 'let off steam', though? That's really, really dumb. I can't relate on any level to that.

Edited by AVM

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Generally, it's not difficult as a wrestler/performer to gauge which members of the audience would be more up for being involved than others, and to what extent. When in doubt, chances are there'll be a crew member, a mate, a trainee, or some other easy target that you know you can safely antagonise without any risk of backlash, if you want to give the rest of the audience the impression of you getting into a beef with a fan without any backlash.

With Eaver, it seems to be as much that he has a track record for this kind of thing. I've only been to one show he was booked on, but he spent a lot of time on the mic, in gimmick, after the show effectively harassing people into playing along with his schtick, putting his arm around them and stopping them if they tried to leave, and really going out of his way to target people that were visibly uncomfortable with it. It might not sound like much, but I'd rather wrestlers shy away from anything that makes people not feel comfortable/safe attending shows, and I can see how someone with anxiety etc. would have been really affected by it.

There was also a story from a recent show - possibly the same PROGRESS show that kicked all of this off - of him repeatedly putting the microphone to a speaker to create feedback, to the extent that at least one deaf member of the audience was forced to leave because it was putting them in physical pain. Now, I've been to some incredibly loud noise gigs and ruined my hearing as a result, but I knew what I was consenting to - I wouldn't expect a wrestling show to do the same. 

 

I'm sure some people will see all this as snowflake-y PC gone mad nonsense, but accessibility is a good thing, and it would be great if wrestlers weren't making disabled fans uncomfortable or unable to attend shows. 

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1 hour ago, Chris B said:

Not suitable at an orgy either.

Exactly, you should at least learn their name beforehand

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1 hour ago, Dead Mike said:

99% of the time it does.

99%? Where are you getting your statistics from!?

1 hour ago, BomberPat said:

as someone who's promoted wrestling shows, it's not about whether you "hurt the feelings" of the wrestlers in the ring. It's about whether the fat kid in the second row that's there for an escape, to watch his heroes after being bullied at school, particularly wants to be sat surrounded by people shouting "you fat cunt" (to use your example) at a wrestler in the ring. You can substitute "fat cunt" for an insult of the wrestler's race, gender, sexuality or anything else. I don't want fans at my shows to feel uncomfortable or unwelcome because certain "fans" think it's their God-given right to shout whatever the fuck they like, even if it's something that would be considered wholly unacceptable anywhere else.

And, again, if you can't come up with anything better than "you fat cunt", then it's probably better keeping your mouth shut anyway. I can hardly see the show or anyone else's enjoyment of it being improved by adding that degree of wit into the proceedings. 

It IS becoming about hurting the wrestlers feelings though - several social media posts including Bray Wyatt's confirm this.
I don't think I actually said yelling 'cunt' in front of a kid was acceptable in fairness.
Problem is, people ARE keeping their mouths shut and people ARE staying away from shows. I'm not saying that's because they go 'Oh I can't say cunt? Huh, well I'm not going then!', it's clearly a much bigger issue than that, but there must be some correlation between wrestling becoming less popular the more 'PC' it is getting in comparison to how massively popular it was in the late 90's when it was the most un-PC it has ever been - and I refuse to believe it's because everyone back then was racist/homophobic etc. 


 

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Just now, Snitsky's back acne said:

99%? Where are you getting your statistics from!?

 

15yrs of regularly promoting stand up comedy shows & tours.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Snitsky's back acne said:

but there must be some correlation between wrestling becoming less popular the more 'PC' it is getting in comparison to how massively popular it was in the late 90's when it was the most un-PC it has ever been - and I refuse to believe it's because everyone back then was racist/homophobic etc. 


 

I am pretty sure there are more wrestling events now taking place in the UK then there were in the late 90's.

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12 minutes ago, Snitsky's back acne said:

Problem is, people ARE keeping their mouths shut and people ARE staying away from shows. I'm not saying that's because they go 'Oh I can't say cunt? Huh, well I'm not going then!', it's clearly a much bigger issue than that, but there must be some correlation between wrestling becoming less popular the more 'PC' it is getting in comparison to how massively popular it was in the late 90's when it was the most un-PC it has ever been - and I refuse to believe it's because everyone back then was racist/homophobic etc. 

638-become-a-pirate-fight-global-warming

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24 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

Exactly, you should at least learn their name beforehand

And perhaps not wait till it's under way before enquiring as to the identity of their father.

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7 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

I am pretty sure there are more wrestling events now taking place in the UK then there were in the late 90's.

More companies, sure, but the UK has for at least the last 35 years or so had the holiday camps and stuff that always ran ridiculous amounts [I'm sure some wrestlers worked 8-10 times a day etc] so actual numbers wise I would imagine they are fairly similar.  Sadly its difficult to fully gauge as so much stuff was not documented then to the level it is now. 

 

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17 minutes between "Where are you getting your statistics from!?!" and "actual numbers wise, I would imagine they are fairly similar, but we'll never know...."

Also, somehow, these glory days of shows where you could slag people off in a proper 18-rated level were, in fact... holiday camps. Because after a hard week of work, we all go to blow off steam and act like bell-ends at your local Butlins.

 

 

Edited by Chris B

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the holiday camp shows still exist, though. Even aside from the influx of "indie" companies over the past few years, All Star are running 12 (advertised) shows next month, and will most likely be running Haven camps in the summer/school holidays, and Megaslam have got 20 shows advertised for next month, will be running considerably more in the summer. NGW run Butlins, and there's probably plenty more I don't know about. 

So if your argument is that wrestling was bigger in the '90s in England because of camp shows (despite it being a matter of record that the scene was absolutely on its arse in the mid-to-late '90s, which would fall into the period that wrestling was at its most popular and "least PC"), then it stands to reason that it's bigger still now given that we have camp shows plus a broader range of indie companies running regularly. It's not "difficult to gauge" that wrestling in this country was dead in the '90s - it was less than 30 years ago, not ancient history. Many of us were there.

 

That's aside from the nonsensical claim that wrestling is less popular because it's more "PC". Nobody outside of the wrestling bubble would think that wrestling was remotely "PC" in the first place - but we're obviously grading the concept of political correctness on a curve if it can be stretched to include, "acceptable to shout abuse at performers". 

Edited by BomberPat

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3 minutes ago, Chris B said:

17 minutes between "Where are you getting your statistics from!?!" and "actual numbers wise, I would imagine they are fairly similar, but we'll never know...."

Also, somehow, these glory days of shows where you could slag people off in a proper 18-rated level were, in fact... holiday camps. Because after a hard week of work, we all go to blow off steam and act like bell-ends at your local Butlins.

Yes because there's a difference between being able to verify data and not.
'99%' is based on one persons experience within a much larger industry so while it may, in their experience, be 99% it is not fully representative of the entire stand up comedy industry, in much the same way cagematch.net or whatever having way more results from UK wrestling shows now does not prove categorically that there are more shows running, just that there is more documentation of them.

....as for your last paragraph - it's so ridiculous I'm not even going to try and justify it. I just wish people would not make assumptions based on what they think someone has written or what they think someone is saying. It would make life so much easier.

I did say right at the start that I knew I would cop shit from my initial post - the forum has far exceeded even my expectations on that score. Congratulations.
 

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Yeah, but you can't really go into a forum like this, knowing what it's like, and complain that people aren't changing their behaviour. It'd be like trying to ask people to stop fucking at an orgy or something.

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