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4-Day Work Week & 6-Hour Work Day - Thoughts?


David

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This just wouldn't work in the care industry. 

My center is for disabled adults they get dropped off at 9 and at leave at 5, 5 days a week.

So unless the wages went way way up and they hired more people to cover the only option would be to cut the service hours down. The knock on effect would not be good for any involved. 

We dont have targets to meet therefore we cant increase productivity 

 

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1 hour ago, Jonny Vegas said:

Comparing the culture, work ethic and mindset of the general public in the UK to scandinavia is nonsensical. They are two entirely different cultures in the large part.

The UK is a group of nations where everyone wants to do less and get more for it. The reality is if we switched to a 4 day week, working less hours, for the same money, very few people would be willing to increase their output during their working hours to achieve that.

Lots of people that did put the extra work in initially would soon stop once their feet were under the table and there was no risk of losing the cushty new arrangements if they did. A lot of people would still be clamoiring for longer breaks, more days off, pay raises etc.

The UK is filled with some of the most well priviliged yet ungrateful people in the entire world in nearly every single level of society.

In any job that I've ever had I've next to never experienced the hard working, competent employees complaining about how much they get paid or how long they have to work. It's for the vast majority the people who are lazy, unwilling and/or incompetent.

I'm not talking about reasonable, decent, hard working and honest people here. There's plenty of them who would strive to make this work however there's far too many who wouldn't and it's those people who would ruin it for everyone else.

Just for clarity I'm from a working class background, far from well off and never will be.

Bloody hell, which one is it? Everyone or some?

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Everyone wants to do less and get more.

Very few people would be willing to increase their work input and sustain it.

The UK is filled with some of the most well priviliged but ungrateful people.

The vast majority of people who complain are the lazy/incompetent/unwilling.

There's plenty who would strive to make this work but there's far too many who wouldn't and therefore would render the extra work and effort by the others pointless.

That's as simplified as I can make it for you Bacon. Not sure where the confusion is as they're seperate statements relating to the complete picture.

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I do a 36 hour job where I work a day every other weekend (it switches from Saturday to Sunday). As a result I get every Thursday off. So some weeks that works out as 1 day off in the week and a weekend off but half of the time it's 1 day off in the week, come back to work, a day off on the weekend. Those weeks are utter shit. Especially since I do a 12 hour day on the Wednesday so essentially spend the Thursday asleep until the evening when I have to think about going back in the next day. Oddly the people I work for have done a "mental wellbeing" push...

The problem with any progression towards hours is that a lot of employers will just use it as a weapon. It'll be a case of "it's made it really difficult for us, people better pull their weight around here and work harder to make up for our losses." 

This country is more obsessed with being seen to be working hard than people working hard or efficiently. 

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13 hours ago, Jonny Vegas said:

Comparing the culture, work ethic and mindset of the general public in the UK to scandinavia is nonsensical. They are two entirely different cultures in the large part.

The UK is a group of nations where everyone wants to do less and get more for it. The reality is if we switched to a 4 day week, working less hours, for the same money, very few people would be willing to increase their output during their working hours to achieve that.

Lots of people that did put the extra work in initially would soon stop once their feet were under the table and there was no risk of losing the cushty new arrangements if they did. A lot of people would still be clamoiring for longer breaks, more days off, pay raises etc.

The UK is filled with some of the most well priviliged yet ungrateful people in the entire world in nearly every single level of society.

In any job that I've ever had I've next to never experienced the hard working, competent employees complaining about how much they get paid or how long they have to work. It's for the vast majority the people who are lazy, unwilling and/or incompetent.

I'm not talking about reasonable, decent, hard working and honest people here. There's plenty of them who would strive to make this work however there's far too many who wouldn't and it's those people who would ruin it for everyone else.

Just for clarity I'm from a working class background, far from well off and never will be.

Wow, where to start with this? A sweeping generalisation if ever I saw one.

Everyone wants to do less and get more for it? Really? I don't think that's the case at all. The UK is no different from anywhere else, it has it's fair share of lazy people, but there are plenty of hard-working people as well.

The NHS, for example? You think nurses, care givers and suchlike are "wanting to do less and get more for it?" 

What about social services? I know a few people who work within that industry and who put in a hell of a graft during their shifts. 

Also, your argument is all over the place, as has been mentioned. You claim "everyone" wants to do less and get more for it, yet later you backtrack and say you're not talking about decent, hard-working people. Which is it? Everyone? Some people? 

Despite you clarifying that you're working class and not well-off, it doesn't stop this post being a load of absolute nonsense.

Edited by David
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1 hour ago, David said:

Wow, where to start with this? A sweeping generalisation if ever I saw one.

Everyone wants to do less and get more for it? Really? I don't think that's the case at all. The UK is no different from anywhere else, it has it's fair share of lazy people, but there are plenty of hard-working people as well.

The NHS, for example? You think nurses, care givers and suchlike are "wanting to do less and get more for it?" 

What about social services? I know a few people who work within that industry and who put in a hell of a graft during their shifts. 

Also, your argument is all over the place, as has been mentioned. You claim "everyone" wants to do less and get more for it, yet later you backtrack and say you're not talking about decent, hard-working people. Which is it? Everyone? Some people? 

Despite you clarifying that you're working class and not well-off, it doesn't stop this post being a load of absolute nonsense.

My opinion is a load of absolute nonsense, it's a sweeping generalisation,and it's all over the placehowever you start with saying the UK is no different to anywhere else. NO DIFFERENT TO ANYWHERE ELSE.

Cuba, North Korea, UK, Peru, Sudan, Afghanistan, Ecuador, Faroe Islands. All the same.

Which is it? Anywhere? Some places?

Nurses and caregivers are two jobs where the idea you put up for discussion is entirely impossible as they're already at huge financial and availability strains.

I'e encountered some social workers, nurses and care givers with excellent attitudes and work ethics. I encountered more with horrible attitudes and work ethics.

When I say everyone wants to do less for more money then you're right, that is a sweeping generalisation. I don't know EVERYONE in the UK so that isn't fair.

I wouldn't even need one hand to count the people I'd met in my life who thought they were underworked and overpaid though.

I'm not saying that my opinion is correct and that yours or anyone else's is wrong. I don't know the people you have met and experienced but I know the people that I have. My opinion is based on those people.

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For me, the problem is certainly the British mentality.  It's always a race to the bottom isn't it?  Look at RMT, instead of thinking "Wow, they are unionised and organised.  They fight and win for better and fairer working conditions, we should do the same", it's always "I wish I got paid half of what they did, I have to unblock the office toilet with my bare hands, they should have to do that too and see how the rest of us suffer and be grateful for what they've got".

For a country that bangs on about bulldog spirit and "British by the grace of God", you ain't half a bunch of servile forelock tugging invertebrates.  Look at the Prime Minister, anything said to you in a posh accent you'll swallow up and say "Yes Sir".  That's why there is still a monarchy, you need posh people to serve and think it makes you noble.  The sooner Meghan Markle destroys the whole house of cards, the better.

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4 minutes ago, Jonny Vegas said:

My opinion is a load of absolute nonsense, it's a sweeping generalisation,and it's all over the placehowever you start with saying the UK is no different to anywhere else. NO DIFFERENT TO ANYWHERE ELSE.

Cuba, North Korea, UK, Peru, Sudan, Afghanistan, Ecuador, Faroe Islands. All the same.

Which is it? Anywhere? Some places?

The UK is no different to anywhere else that has a human population. People, for the most part, are people. Some are lazy, some aren't. It has nothing to do with Finland being "better" than the UK (although given recent political results the argument for them being smarter could be quite strong) in that regard.

The bottom line is that as we progress as a society, we should be absolutely looking for ways to fine tune the work/life balance, and there's nothing wrong in looking at nations who are already going down that path for inspiration.

Being overworked isn't a good thing. It leads to mental health problems, physical problems and issues with relationships.

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8 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

For me, the problem is certainly the British mentality.  It's always a race to the bottom isn't it?  Look at RMT, instead of thinking "Wow, they are unionised and organised.  They fight and win for better and fairer working conditions, we should do the same", it's always "I wish I got paid half of what they did, I have to unblock the office toilet with my bare hands, they should have to do that too and see how the rest of us suffer and be grateful for what they've got".

For a country that bangs on about bulldog spirit and "British by the grace of God", you ain't half a bunch of servile forelock tugging invertebrates.  Look at the Prime Minister, anything said to you in a posh accent you'll swallow up and say "Yes Sir".  That's why there is still a monarchy, you need posh people to serve and think it makes you noble.  The sooner Meghan Markle destroys the whole house of cards, the better.

Keith summoning all his Irish blood like a Pepsi Max chugging SpursRiot there 

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On 1/7/2020 at 11:23 PM, westlondonmist said:

I worked in housing and utility repairs and office staff worked the same hours as tradesmen and engineers. A lot of our work would be hit back by doing that, especially working 4 days. You could however employ extra workers so everybody did 4 days but not everyone will be working 4 days running. Outside of construction I would say many of my roles could easily have been done in 4 days working 30 to 35 hours rather than the 40 to 45 I have done. 

A big issue is I know a lot of people who basically have unpaid overtime forced upon them, some of them not even paid well anyway. I do not know why you would bother, myself but maybe that's why I'm not successful. However I think loads of companies would just try and say well if you haven't finished you can't leave. 

 

I used to work in a couple of jobs where it was "expected" you would do this unpaid overtime. I blame a lot of that for being catalyst in my own weight gain and lack of a social life around that time as once 5 or 6, 10 hour days were done I had no motivation for anything else.

I also worked in a few jobs where you had to work 9 hours a day with a 45 min lunch break. I look back on that now and think really that's a stupidly short time to unwind and recharge before the second half of the day.

I certainly think salaried workers could be targeted and encouraged to become more productive so that they can have a 4 day working week but the responsibility needs to be put onto the employee to finish their work so they can be free. Rather than have them stuck in the workplace to do their hours the average human being would benefit from being able to go spend time with friends/ family, pursue education, exercise or even if needed do extra part time work. 

I work a 40 hour work week but I can fit those hours in however I see fit with an 11 hour window each day to do so. However in my profession it is more common to only be paid for teaching hours at rate that allows for planning and marking. As long as i'm getting enough teaching hours I do prefer that as I can push through my admin work to maximize my free time. 

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12 hours ago, David said:

The UK is no different to anywhere else that has a human population. People, for the most part, are people. Some are lazy, some aren't. It has nothing to do with Finland being "better" than the UK (although given recent political results the argument for them being smarter could be quite strong) in that regard.

The bottom line is that as we progress as a society, we should be absolutely looking for ways to fine tune the work/life balance, and there's nothing wrong in looking at nations who are already going down that path for inspiration.

Being overworked isn't a good thing. It leads to mental health problems, physical problems and issues with relationships.

Being overworked definitely isn't a good thing I agree but I also think that being over worked is an opinion rather than a fact in a lot of cases.

For the most part, people employed on a full time basis work 40 hours a week. There are 168 hours in a week, meaning that on any given working week less than 1/3 of it is spent working. Add in public holidays and annual leave for the year which for most people would equate to around 29 extra otherwise working days off a year and we're edging closer to spending 1/4 of our working years at work.

Let's say for argument sake that someone leaves school at 16 and goes straight into work. They work until 67 when they retire and they live until 80. Obviously theres so many variables due to higher education, periods of unemployment, illness, earlier retirement or earlier death but please indulge me.

That would provide 698,800 hours of life. With a standard 40 hour a week job minus standard 4 weeks (20 days) annual leave a year and lets say 7 public holidays not 9 to give benefit of doubt 95,880 hours worked over that lifetime.

13% of life spent working. In the words of Scott Steiner, the numbers don't lie.

You can add in time for commuting, absolutely, however this is in many cases a choice of the employee. Some have no choice due to lack of work close to where they live, having a specialism or job role which they need to commute for or others. For others its a decision to earn more money or do something they would prefer to do.

On the commute nowadays most people I know who do so listen to podcasts or music, play video games, read books or watch TV/movies which they would be doing if in their free time at home.

Ok there's zero hour contracts etc where terms aren't as good but they are in the vast minority. They absolutely should be scrapped.

There's been a lot of mentions of mental health and the impact being over worked can have on that. My opinion is that self perception can also have a huge impact on mental health. People allowing themselves or encouraging others to believe they are in far worse situations than they are is something that I believe is severely mentally damaging.

David, you said the UK is no different to anywhere else and to me that is nonsense. For all of its faults I think overall it's drastically better than most places. Yes, lunatics like Boris Johnson may be looking to make moves that impact that negatively but I don't have a crystal ball so I can only comment on the here and now, not the future.

I think those of us fortunate to live in the UK with everything else going on across the world and the conditions that some people live in sometimes should take a step back and rather than get carried away with feeling like victims, appreciate how fortunate the majority of us are in comparison to others.

Overall I feel the majority of people in the UK have choices, choices which people elsewhere in the world simply don't have. Even places like Italy, a first world major european country where hrough work I met a girl who was explaining to me how she earned €3 an hour working for a government funded museum and came back to work from a weeks illness to be told her job had been filled by someone else.

When I left school I worked in retail and had a job for a good few years at a video game store 5 minutes walk from my house. It was 40 hours a week never any longer, there was no stress, it was a fun job with work colleagues that I considered good friends but on the other side it wasn't tremendously well paid. I couldn't afford to learn to drive or run a car but I didn't need to. I couldn't afford foreign holidays or to buy a house but I didn't deem them neccessary. I had the choice to leave for better paid jobs but I decided that it wasnt worth it at that time because I was happy.

For the last 11 years I've worked in a job where I'm almost always there longer than 40 hours a week, its very stressful, it isn't fun, it isn't 5 minutes walk from my house, some of the people are good and some not but those are circumstances I decide to put up with for better financial terms. I own a house, we go abroad on holiday, I can afford materialistic items. I could leave at any point and do something less stressful with less hours but with that choice would come a reduction in what we could afford.

My belief is that most people have ample time for a very healthy work/life balance and its time management and their own decisions which effect this. Those aren't things that governments or societies should be responsible for ahead of the individuals making those decisions.

Even with my job and the conditions that come with it I have ample time off, so much that after having kids I genuinely struggle to understand how on earth I filled that free time and what on earth I wasted it all on previously.

I'm not saying I AM RIGHT. I'm saying this is my opinion, my experience and my outlook on the situation and that perspective is from a position of working class without a hint of privilige.

 

 

 

Edited by Jonny Vegas
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