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wandshogun09

UFC 247: Jones vs Reyes - Feb 8 🇺🇸

Who wins and how?   

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PREDICTION    
Jones  |  Decision    
Shevchenko  |  Decision            
Tafa  |  KO/TKO  |  Round 1    
Bektić  |  Decision    
Lewis  |  KO/TKO  |  Round 1    
Krause  |  KO/TKO  |  Round 2    
Lee  |  Decision    
Morono  |  KO/TKO  |  Round 2    
Johns  |  Decision    
Pilarte  |  Decision    
Martinez  |  KO/TKO  |  Round 2    
Lingo  |  KO/TKO  |  Round 1

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That was mighty close. 

Jones won rounds 4 and 5 quite clearly. Whereas Reyes clearly won round 1. Rounds 2 and 3 were both tight, but I scored both for Reyes. I thus scored the fight 48-47 to Reyes. However, it was no robbery imo. You could make a case that Jones won round 2. 

Apparently the judge who scored the fight 49-46 to Jones had turned in an utterly stupid scorecard earlier in the evening. So expect a bit of talk about that in the days to come. 

 

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So, unless something has changed, the MMA judging criteria is "striking, grappling, aggression and Octagon control" - in that order. Reyes had the first 3 rounds. The argument circulating is "Jones was advancing!", but it's like those dodgy Diego Sanchez/Leonard Garcia decisions back in the day- it's all well and good to come forward in the fight, but if you're getting beat to the punch (or kick), you're losing. Jon Jones lost that fight.

The judges were a mess all night. I really hope the UFC thinks twice about holding future big fights in Texas.

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I scored it Reyes but could see it either way certainly wasnt a robbery. As you said the scoring in general was suspect but the main event was way to close for me to grumble either way.

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Yeah, Jones vs Reyes was very close. Outcries of robbery all over social media as always. I think this forum is the only place for MMA discussion where people are generally very sensible when it comes to that talk. No matter who you have winning, if there are no 10-8 rounds and you can see the argument for scoring 3 out of 5 rounds either way, how in the fuck is that a robbery?

I kind of lost track of the scoring a bit myself. By the end I felt like Reyes might’ve nicked it but I really wasn’t sure. I’ll have to watch it again.

Got to give Reyes his due. I was probably his biggest doubter on here going in but he rose to the occasion last night and really gave Jones all he could handle. I’m starting to wonder about Jones now though. Is he finally starting to slow down? You look at his last few fights...

Anthony Smith - Jones was dominant but it went the distance which I found somewhat surprising at the time. Nothing against Smith. I really like him and he’s tough as fuck. But I felt like Jones was several levels above him and Smith has been stopped a few times in the past. I just felt like a guy who put the likes of Cormier and Gustafsson away should’ve been finishing someone like Smith who’d been an average Middleweight not long beforehand. But whatever.

Thiago Santos - Again, I’m a huge fan of Santos. You could go back to threads from years ago and you’d see me singing his praises. I felt like Jones would school him though. But it turned out to be a razor close battle that many thought should’ve been scored for Santos. Now Santos is good, but you’d never have pegged him to give Jones that kind of a struggle a year or so previously. And again, he was a so-so 185er who’d only recently moved up to 205.

And now Dominick Reyes - Takes Jones right to the wire in yet another close one.

Is Jones slipping? Are the rest of the division just catching up to him? Or is it something else maybe, like Jones not being quite so dominant since that whole USADA/picogram mess? Or maybe the cut to 205 is getting tougher as Jones has gotten older? I don’t know. Something has changed though and it’s surely one of the above? He’s gone from blitzing through the opposition to completely dominating them in shutouts to now where we’re at the point where he’s had two fights back-to-back where a lot of people felt he lost. Some people I’ve spoke to seem to not want to accept that he’s been less dominant in recent times but it’s a hard fact. Are people forgetting the times when it was a big deal if someone landed a few clean shots on Jones? Or if Jones even lost a single round? Now we’ve reached a point where he’s going tooth and nail with guys and barely leaving with the gold. Times have changed. Whether it’s something to do with Jones himself or the rest of the division have just stepped their game up. It’s an interesting time in the division.

Valentina Shevchenko is easily one of my favourite fighters in all of combat sports right now. Just a stone cold sniper. Highly skilled, no real weaknesses, always dangerous. And I’m just a big fan of her whole aura and the way she carries herself. The accent and the cold delivery definitely add to it. If there’s ever a spin-off of Creed where Ivan Drago has a daughter, then Sly Stallone absolutely needs to give Valentina a call. Chookagian isn’t well known but she’s really not a bad fighter. Shevchenko made this look pretty effortless though. The sound that one spinning back kick made...

It’s hard to see who can give her trouble at Flyweight. At this moment in time, she’s in the zone and 125lbs seems like the perfect weight class for her. Can’t think who’d even be next. Do they feed a Joanne Calderwood or someone to her? I mean, I love Calderwood but she’s getting slaughtered there. Who else? Roxanne Modafferi? It’s slim pickings now. It’s a shame because 125 is clearly the ideal division for Shevchenko but the only real tests for her at the moment are the champs in other divisions. Either Zhang Weili or a third crack at Amanda Nunes at 135. Not sure a third go at Nunes is very likely. The Zhang fight could be awesome though if Zhang gets past Joanna Jedrzejczyk next month. It seems early with Zhang only just winning the title at 115 but I can see it happening this year just because neither will have an obvious next challenger if Zhang beats Joanna. Could easily see Shevchenko vs Zhang going down on one of the summer PPVs. 

Justin Tafa bashing Juan Adams early didn’t come as a huge surprise. I thought Adams might be able to get his wrestling going but he got tagged early on and that was that. 3 losses on the trot for Adams. And he’s been put away quick twice in a row now as well. Not looking good. Shame. He seems a good guy and I think he’s got the kind of personality that could catch on if he was...you know, any good. I doubt Tafa amounts to much in terms of being a contender or anything but he can crack. There’s fun to be had with him on the prelims/Fight Night cards and stuff. He’s a bit of a knock-off Mark Hunt but I like him. 

Thought Dan Ige vs Mirsad Bektić was excellent. Going in, I expected this to be FOTN and I felt like it was. Ige looked a beast in that opening round and really lit Bektic up. Then Bektic came back and won the second with the grappling and that arm triangle attempt. Then I felt like Ige just about took the final round. Real good scrap. At least the judges got this one right. 

Black Beast vs Ilir Latifi was a decent PPV opener. Latifi didn’t embarrass himself by any means but I think it’s clear he’s going to struggle if he stays at Heavyweight. He’s strong as a bull but he’s just not big enough for that weight class. If he was going to be able to outwrestle anyone at Heavyweight, Lewis was probably one of the better matchups for him and, while he had success with his takedowns, I think Lewis’ strength and size just made it too much hard work. Nice to see Lewis win. I wouldn’t mind seeing him smack Greg Hardy about if Hardy wins his upcoming fight. 

Caught most of the prelims. They were fun.

Trevin Giles vs James Krause was pretty good, especially considering Krause didn’t even know he was fighting until fucking Friday! Really thought he might complete that choke in the first round but it wasn’t to be. Fair play to him for stepping up. These two got FOTN apparently. I didn’t think it was myself but nice to see Krause got an extra $50K regardless. 

Lauren Murphy vs Andrea Lee was alright. Wasn’t amazing but far from boring and both went for it. Most notable thing about this fight though, was Rogan commenting that one of the judges wasn’t even watching the action during the fight. No wonder the scoring was all over the place last night with incompetent pillocks like that judging.

Khaos Williams! Christ, what a UFC debut. Morono is a durable guy as well. He’d only been finished once in a 20-something fight career. Done here in 27 seconds. Williams wasn’t playing. I don’t know if he’s always this wild and reckless or if he was just overexcited because it was his UFC debut. If this is typical of his style you can see him getting clipped before long, but fuck me he’ll be fun to watch. Khaos indeed. 

Mario Bautista vs Miles Johns was a decent fight too. Thought Bautista looked very sharp here and that flying knee at the finish was sweet. Johns was unbeaten prior to this fight as well. Bautista could be a bit of a dark horse. He’s 8-1 now, 6 finishes and his only loss is to Cory Sandhagen who’s a stud himself. 

If you didn’t see Journey Newson vs Domingo Pilarte down on Fight Pass, do yourself that favour. 38 seconds well spent. Just mayhem from the opening bell and then a big finish out of nowhere.

CFA94F54-E411-47D2-B6D7-1490406A96F2.gif

Walloped him.

Andre Ewell vs Jonathan Martinez was really good. Really entertaining fight. Unfortunately it was marred by dodgy judging. Definitely felt like Martinez got stiffed on the scorecards. This was a worse decision than Jones vs Reyes for me. One judge scored it 30-27 for Ewell, which is just indefensible. I think it was the same judge who scored the main event 49-46. Did he have his white stick and Labrador with him as well? 

I had a funny old night prediction-wise. Got 4 out of the 5 winners right on the main card but I went a shocking 0-7 on the prelims. 

Edited by wandshogun09

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Regarding Jones's decline.

I do not think it is related to age. 32 is actually an ideal age for a light heavyweight. Heck, the two guys who have taken him to the wire recently, Santos and Reyes, are aged 30 and 36 respectively. 

It's possible that complacency is a factor. However, he barely trained for the first fight with DC and other fights earlier on in his career, and he still dominated many of those fights  So, either he can't get away with half-arsing it like he used to, or complacency isn't a factor at all. 

I just think that Reyes was a bad match-up for him. Reyes's height, self-belief, constant movement, kicks, and boxing were made to give Jones fits. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, jimufctna24 said:

I just think that Reyes was a bad match-up for him. Reyes's height, self-belief, constant movement, kicks, and boxing were made to give Jones fits. 

Maybe that’s the case but that doesn’t explain the Santos and Smith fights. Or going back a bit further, the lacklustre performance against OSP. He’s still managing to walk away as champion but these ‘off nights’ seem to be becoming a little bit more of a regular thing now. I’d have thought it was complacency as well but you would’ve thought he’d have learned that lesson when he nearly lost to Gustafsson in 2013. I wouldn’t think he’d be still half-arsing it 6/7 years later. I’m not sure it is complacency anymore. I don’t know what it is. He’s not looking terrible out there or anything. We have to be sensible when we’re talking about his ‘decline’. He’s still a fucking freak. But he’s having a lot more close fights these days. And it’s not a one-off. I have a hard time imagining the Jon Jones of say, 2011-2014 not putting the likes of Smith and Santos away within 25 minutes. 

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12 hours ago, wandshogun09 said:

Maybe that’s the case but that doesn’t explain the Santos and Smith fights.

Against Smith, he was dominant from what I remember. I don't recall Smith having much offence. Smith went on to stop Gusty just a few months later.  Against Santos, he tried to kick with a kicker and apparently ignored his corner's instructions to take the fight to the mat.  With OSP, he packed on too much muscle against Jackson's advice and didn't deal well with OSP size. He nonetheless still won handily. 

If you look at those three fights as a whole, you do see some complacency, which has seemingly always been there to a degree. However, you also see fighters that had certain attributes that can give Jones problems. And it was only a year ago when he turned in the best performance of his career against Gusty.

The drug angle you mention is interesting. Jones is now seemingly subjected to year-round testing, which is a policy that USADA have rarely implemented in the past, and is one of a reasons why many consider VADA to be the most legitimate testing programme. If he is slipping, I guess that could be something to do with it.

 

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With regards to a decline, it's worth noting that almost all champions eventually get sussed out and/or over taken. GSP said that the hardest thing about being a champion is maintain your levels when the opposition have every minute of footage of you in such high-level contests. I think the LHW division is maybe better than given credit for, these days.

Anyway, I'm not entirely sure who sneaked that fight. The 3rd round was so tight it could have easily been scored a draw. To Jones' credit, there were clearly a number of times Reyes had him hurt but Jones managed to stay composed enough to get away from taking much more - whether that be grappling or just running away. 

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20 hours ago, wandshogun09 said:

One judge scored it 30-27 for Ewell, which is just indefensible. I think it was the same judge who scored the main event 49-46.  

I just checked mmadecisions.com and yes it was the same judge. He also gave Giles the first round against Krause, so horrible judging on all three of his fights. He wasn't the judge that wasn't watching the murphy v lee fight though.

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31 minutes ago, weevil said:

He wasn't the judge that wasn't watching the murphy v lee fight though.

That’s even more worrying because it means at least two out of the three judges either didn’t know what they were doing or didn’t care.

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On 2/9/2020 at 3:47 PM, jimufctna24 said:

The drug angle you mention is interesting. Jones is now seemingly subjected to year-round testing, which is a policy that USADA have rarely implemented in the past, and is one of a reasons why many consider VADA to be the most legitimate testing programme. If he is slipping, I guess that could be something to do with it.

 

 

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As soon as the 49-46 was read i thought Reyes had it. I dont see how anyone could get that card. I had 48-47 Reyes giving him the first 3, i even thought he was taking the 4th until Jones took over in the second half of the round. 

The Shevchenko domination felt like the end of the division. Rogan was so down on there being any potential challengers it made it all feel abit pointless. Shevchenko is the new Mighty Mouse.

Enjoyed the Tafa win, he's like a pound shop Mark Hunt, but i'll take that. Anytime a tough headed Samoan fights, im interested.

Lewis/Latifi was good stuff with an old school vibe. Thought Lewis stole it with his late surge. Latifi's chin must have filled out at heavyweight.

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