David Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 5 hours ago, Carbomb said: I currently earn more than I've ever earned. I'm also as left-wing as, if not more than, I've ever been. Yeah, but I'm talking about society in general, not this forum. It's obvious that most on here are left-wing liberal types, but it's also obvious that we don't represent the wider population of the UK. This forum, and I don't mean this as a criticism, is something of an echo chamber of sorts. Virtually every political vote or discussion goes the opposite of how the wider population of the country reacts at the moment. The same goes for other online groups and forums. In the lead up to the Scottish independence referendum it seemed to be a foregone conclusion for many of my SNP supporting friends that independence was around the corner. Why? Because they were only really gauging the sentiment of their Facebook friends and those who posted on the forums and Facebook groups they were a member of. Those groups didn't really have any members who offered an alternative viewpoint, and if any did appear they were quickly banned for "trolling." There's a tendency to reason away bad results or rises in apparent right-wing political popularity, and already I'm seeing (not on here, but in various places) the general belief that we'll see a more left-wing nation in the years to come when the older generation die and the more enlightened younger types come into their own. I remember thinking that way twenty odd years ago. It never happened then, and I'd wager that it won't happen in the next twenty years either. The sad truth is that for most, personal and family security and wellbeing will always trump the wellbeing of the wider society. And I know we can argue that what benefits the wider society in turn benefits the individual, but we know that people tend not to think that way when push comes to shove. They never really have, and they most likely never will. They think emotionally. They go with whatever narrative they can most closely identify with. That's why when the actual independence vote for Scotland came about the majority voted to remain in the UK, because the argument for financial and personal stability was stronger from the remain side than the possibility of a brighter future as an independent nation. People wanted to know by "how much money" they'd be better or worse off. Independence was "too risky" for those who had anything to lose. To win an election or referendum of that kind the campaign group has to build a campaign around one of the factors that appeal to the base human psychology, or however you want to frame it. In the EU referendum the leave side tapped into that in a big way with immigration and the suggestion that we weren't able to make our own decisions due to involvement from Brussels. The remain side didn't do a good enough job of overcoming that with the financial and personal stability factor. The financial and economic argument won over the people for Tony Blair back in the day. Labour haven't been able to make a similar level of argument since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted December 23, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted December 23, 2019 Oh, I'm well aware this place can be a bit of an echo chamber. With the exceptions of some who've posted in here, and Richard, who was further right than Hitler's wanking hand, this is a pretty left-wing forum. I personally don't consider left-wing and liberal to be the same thing, though, not while such terms are understood within their current economic contexts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Carbomb said: I personally don't consider left-wing and liberal to be the same thing, though, not while such terms are understood within their current economic contexts. No, they aren't the same thing, but I think left-wing and liberal pretty much covers the vast majority who post on political and social matters on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted December 23, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted December 23, 2019 What's become clear in these politics threads over the last few months is that people don't know the difference between an echo chamber and a place with a general leaning or viewpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 The UKFF has a thread called The Tories Are Cunts. It's not an echo chamber so much as a shouting match. All opinions are welcome here, but Tories are Cunts innit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted December 23, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted December 23, 2019 10 minutes ago, Loki said: The UKFF has a thread called The Tories Are Cunts. It's not an echo chamber so much as a shouting match. All opinions are welcome here, but Tories are Cunts innit. On 6/24/2019 at 10:10 AM, Devon Malcolm said: Please feel free to create a Commies Are Cunts thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, Devon Malcolm said: Please feel free to create a Commies Are Cunts thread. How many people voted for the Communist Party of Great Britain in the last general election, Devon? Hardly the same thing. Having a smug wank-fest about the evils of Tory voters might make you feel better (and me, frankly) but it's not going to convince a single person to change their mind. THAT'S an echo chamber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted December 23, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted December 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Loki said: How many people voted for the Communist Party of Great Britain in the last general election, Devon? Hardly the same thing. Having a smug wank-fest about the evils of Tory voters might make you feel better (and me, frankly) but it's not going to convince a single person to change their mind. THAT'S an echo chamber. If you're so upset about this being an echo chamber (which it isn't) then do something about it and create some opposing threads instead of bothering me when I'm watching Flight of the Navigator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 No. I'm happy with it being an echo chamber, I'm just not going to deny that is IS one. And you need to stop trying to multitask, watch a film or post on the internet. Don't do both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted December 23, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted December 23, 2019 I pause it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 4 hours ago, Loki said: Having a smug wank-fest about the evils of Tory voters might make you feel better Nothing smug about it from me, it’s fear and anger. And it doesn’t make me feel better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members quote the raven Posted December 24, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted December 24, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Keith Houchen said: Nothing smug about it from me, it’s fear and anger. And it doesn’t make me feel better. Can I ask what the fear is? The whole nhs finished thing has been put to bed with the ring fence hasn’t it? Edited December 24, 2019 by quote the raven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Dead Mike Posted December 24, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted December 24, 2019 1 hour ago, quote the raven said: Can I ask what the fear is? The whole nhs finished thing has been put to bed with the ring fence hasn’t it? Has it? Great news...got a link? I mean, I've seen Johnson wanting to put in law the amount of money that'll be given to the NHS but I've seen absolutely nothing to say over what period of time that money will be spent, if it will go on front line services or whether it'll be syphoned into bottom lines of the likes of Serco, G4S, Care UK, Virgin et al? I suspect you've seen a tabloid headline claiming 'It's all OK' & decided to believe it. No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted December 24, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted December 24, 2019 1 hour ago, quote the raven said: Can I ask what the fear is? The whole nhs finished thing has been put to bed with the ring fence hasn’t it? Link please. And yeah, that's the only thing that we have to fear from 10 more years of Tory government, sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members quote the raven Posted December 24, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted December 24, 2019 (edited) https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/boris-johnson-to-enshrine-34bn-nhs-spending-pledge-into-law-11887014 earler in this thread people where saying the whole thing will go private. When I asked if the government would allow millions to die due to not being able to pay for treatment I was told they would. Ralph a few pages back was worried for his parents and the nhs. What else needs to happen before everyone accepts this is not the case? Social care needs to be sorted I will give you that. Workers rights bill and environmental conditions should be upheld shortly. Im actually interested in getting others options on this stuff. Edited December 24, 2019 by quote the raven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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