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Gus Mears

General Erection 2019

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6 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

We need to accept that as political reality, and figure out the best means to contend an election with a hostile press, not either shrug and blame them for our failures, or sell out every guiding principle in order to cosy up to them.

I think the failure in this respect from Labour's campaign was their refusal to accept that the right sets the narrative. This was a Brexit election and they chose to try to ignore that one issue and change the narrative. Not possible. They needed to lean into it and frame all their other points in that context. They didn't seem to even try to make the connection or set the context with their other policy points.

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The right are just as bad but he does have a point. If places Thatcher destroyed voting Tory isn't the final wake-up call we all need to realise we can't just keep sticking our nose in the air and assuming it's a minority of knuckle-dragging racists on the other side.

I agree with Pat somewhat that the response shouldn't be kneejerk. There are a lot of people who have voted Tory for the first/only time to get Brexit through. In five years, their view of the world will be vastly different, especially if it goes to shit. I disagree on moving back central though. The only elected Labour government in my lifetime was "New Labour". That's just not a coincidence.

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I think post-Brexit, the next Labour leader will have a better chance given the fact its happened. It was always an odd balancing act they were trying to pull off with Brexit which I understood to a point. 2017 the Labour vote went up as the UKIP voters in those leave towns etc. went back to Labour. Seems now they've swung to Tory as they want Brexit to happen and it is looking like it might get hijacked and not.

New Labour leader has the chance to set out what they will do post Brexit, and hammer the Tories. They wont have the weight of 'getting Brexit done' or 'second referendum' around their neck. I do think it makes a big difference.

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On 11/24/2019 at 11:59 PM, Onyx2 said:

Sadly so. 

Here's my constituency's voting record in my lifetime. 

IMG_20191124_235731.jpg.e4fda03b63ffc39abf1b8ddd80dbf0ef.jpg

More blue than Chubby Brown. A couple of narrow windows where Labour nearly stood a chance, but my pocket of Essex remains staunchly 'not in my back yard', 'get them out', and 'hands off my hard earned.' 

Oily odious bigot man-toad Mark Francois grew his lead to 73%.

I despair. 

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1 hour ago, Factotum said:

As does everyone, especially in this era of social media.The right are just as bad at doing it, as are those in the centre. It riles everyone up. Whether than be a Corbynista shouting at Luciana Berger for being a Blairite, to Julia Hartley Brewer telling the left to fuck off, or James O'brien, the centirst Dad, sighing at someone who supports either side because he thinks he's right.

I listen to James O'Brian each day. He's brilliant, but he's not going around telling everyone who disagrees with him to fuck off! He wants the debate and is damn good at it.

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1 hour ago, Cod Eye said:

The only explanation can be that they hope BREXIT will be a magic wand for them(probably due to the immigrints, Muslims an "Darkies" will be booted out meaning things will be rosy for them), which feels really short sighted to me

 

I think this is an easy conclusion to jump to, but one we should try and avoid at all costs, because it's in part the sort of rhetoric that's losing support from what once were Labour heartlands. We can't tut and admonish Stanley Johnson for saying that the British public are uneducated and illiterate, and then write off entire constituencies as knuckle-dragging racists.

A lot of people voted for Brexit because, quite frankly, they'd tried everything else. Voting Labour didn't see their industries come back, voting Tory didn't make them richer. As frustrating as it is to see Brexit as a protest vote against things other than the EU, for a lot of people it was simply a last gasp effort to find something, anything that might help. And these are the exact same people that an increasingly middle class Labour Party are failing to reach.

1 hour ago, Chest Rockwell said:

I think the failure in this respect from Labour's campaign was their refusal to accept that the right sets the narrative. This was a Brexit election and they chose to try to ignore that one issue and change the narrative. Not possible. They needed to lean into it and frame all their other points in that context. They didn't seem to even try to make the connection or set the context with their other policy points.

Absolutely. I think the one thing Labour did correctly in this campaign was funneling far more money into social media campaigning than into establishment media - that's the only way Labour can attempt to take control of the narrative when faced with a hostile press. But it clearly wasn't enough and, from what I can tell, was either too strongly focused on pushing young first-time voters or on preaching to the converted, and didn't do enough to reach the majority. 

Corbyn simply wasn't a strong enough leader to take control of the narrative on any of the issues, Brexit or otherwise. This needed to be a largely reactive campaign, and unfortunately for those of us who believed in the content of the manifesto, it was too proactive.

57 minutes ago, tiger_rick said:

I disagree on moving back central though. The only elected Labour government in my lifetime was "New Labour". That's just not a coincidence.

I think we need a drastic rethink on what the future of the Labour Party looks like, on a similar scale to that which gave us New Labour. But I don't think New Labour 2.0 is the answer, because the Third Way has failed as an ideology, and I think the Blair years, and to a lesser extent Brown presiding over the financial crash and the expenses scandal, played a huge part in destroying public trust in politicians. That lack of trust is what allows the likes of Boris Johnson to lie with impunity because, now more than ever, the general public assume they're all lying anyway, so it doesn't matter so long as it "feels right". That lack of trust means that a new Tony Blair will likely be seen as a smooth operator with ulterior motives, not an earnest politician doing what he believes is right. 

There needs to be serious consideration of how to bridge the gap between a middle-class membership and a traditionally working class voter base (including difficult conversations around what we actually mean by "working class"), around what a Labour election campaign should look like in the 21st century, and a drastic rethink of how the Labour Party relates to Brexit and to Leave voters.

What worries me is that everyone must surely recognise the need for this kind of reform, but no one will agree on exactly what we got wrong. The Labour Party can pretty consistently be relied upon to learn the exact wrong lessons every time, and a kneejerk response in any direction could be lethal.

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They're all coming out of the woodwork now.  How lovely.

Edited by johnnyboy

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10 minutes ago, MPDTT said:

I listen to James O'Brian each day. He's brilliant, but he's not going around telling everyone who disagrees with him to fuck off! He wants the debate and is damn good at it.

Again, this is fine if you're debating the finer details of the immigration manifesto or looking at where all those tax dollars go to. But if someone called into O'Brian's show and said "I AM VOTING FOR THE TORIES BECAUSE LEAVE MEANS LEAVE AND I DON'T LIKE ALL THESE NON-WHITES IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD AND I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE REPERCUSSIONS TO THE NHS" he would absolutely be in his rights to tell that person to fuck off. You can't debate rationally with bigots, racists and cunts.

I am currently having an argument in a FB thread as I foolishly made a comment about not being happy with my local seat being taken by a Tory in a long-standing Labour area (I rarely, if ever, comment on public FB threads like that). Someone told me they voted for the local Tory because she hates the people washing cars at the lights and begging for money (yeah, fuck the homeless), she wants an end to Uber in our area because the drivers are "nasty" (yikes) and wants an end to HMOs for no particular reason (because fuck students and those on lower-income jobs). That kind of person isn't going to respond to any constructive debate (trust me, people have tried) and so she is rightfully being told to fuck off for being a racist, classist, uncompassionate arsehole.

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24 minutes ago, johnnyboy said:

They're all coming out of the woodwork now.  How lovely.

Absolute vermin. If I woke up on the same side as them, I'd jump out of the window.

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One thing that does have to change is the way we vote. It’s so archaic.

The old boy at the polling station yesterday took at least 3 minutes looking up my name and address, and a further 2 going back and forth between my polling card and actually writing it down. You know that 6 digit number that is so long and unmemorable.

I came away from there utterly unconvinced that he’d crossed my name off and got the right number. I’ve worked at a polling station. It’s a piece of piss.

Sorry Cecil; your time is up.

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I'm not going to reply to her, because fuck signal boosting her even more, but someone really needs to ask her, "who is your and who is our, Katie?". 

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34 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

What worries me is that everyone must surely recognise the need for this kind of reform, but no one will agree on exactly what we got wrong.

Pretty simple. 'You' allowed a re-branded Militant, a cancer that was the scourge of the Labour Party in the 70's & 80's to infiltrate and largely take over. Presenting it as some new, utopian dream, which many young, naive 'kids' fell for. Chanting that cunts name at music festivals made me wanna throw-up...just sickening (the utter muggishness of it). Thanks to the left-wing, Marxits, Trots and whatever else, I & millions of others were subjected to endless years of Thatcher / Tory rule and fuck me, 30-40 years on and lessons learnt...none...result, the same. Present an Opposition like that and this country will take a dump on it. Guarantee. - should anyone be 'offended' by my cancer comment, I've had it twice, so I'll say what I want. -.

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The continued prevalence of the "UK wreaks havoc on the political establishment!" narrative blows my mind. You've voted in a Conservative majority, not Donny Tourette. The single biggest coup of this post-2016 world we're living in has been the heels somehow dressing up as paupers to resounding success. It's actually unfathomable. You try and temper your morning after emotions but the gullibility of it is frightening. 

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