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Gus Mears

General Erection 2019

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24 minutes ago, BrodyGraham said:

 

That's the most disappointing thing for me today, people who the Tories called 'The Enemy Within', 30 odd years ago have gladly taken the bait and lined up for a shafting based purely on the obfuscation of Brexit. The same people who call remainers traitors, have just totally and utterly betrayed their own communities, children and neighbours.

Blythe has gone Tory. The short of it is that Thatcher won in the end, the communities her policies destroyed ended up embracing her legacy. All it took was embracing racism & the feeling of a Labour party abandoning them.

They'll end up getting screwed, we know this & deep down the voters there probably know it too but they were left feeling like there was no alternative which is the truly tragic part of all this.

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6 hours ago, David said:

They'll likely push for another independence vote, to the surprise of no one. The only real difference between a new vote in a year or two and the previous vote is that the oil revenue predictions have dropped substantially.

Last time the financial argument was fairly open for debate, and the remain side still won. This time, it will be more clear-cut so I can see a larger vote in favour of remain. The Scottish GDP deficit is sitting at something like 8%, and the financial gap would see a requirement for austerity measures within Scotland that would make the Tories look like Corbyn-style spend-merchants, 

It would mean massive cuts to public services, or ridiculous taxes introduced. I can't see the idealistic, teary-eyed nationalistic argument standing up to the financial argument.

It will be interesting to see how far other factors (such as the EU and a Johnson Tory government) come in to play for such a thing. Sturgeon is a crafty operator.

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1 hour ago, Accident Prone said:

I was referring mainly to the NHS, the working time directive, 28 days mandatory leave, food hygiene/health standards and David Beckham's right foot. Everything else is mostly shit.

I admire that even within all the anger, you managed to get a sneaky Love Actually reference in there.

With the SNP now pretty much all of Scotland, and Sturgeon already saying she wants another independence vote, how does Johnson’s big new majority affect that? He’s already said he won’t permit it - does the size of the Conservative majority mean there’s no way she’ll get it?

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I can't see her getting another Referendum, no.  The Tories are having to abandon NI back to the EU, there's no way they'll countenance an independent Scotland on their watch.

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Johnson has said there won't be another one, IIRC. Of course, never take him at his word, but it's not something he'll concede soon. As discussed, I'm interesting to see how Sturgeon gets there.

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This is utterly depressing. Feel extremely hollow. How the fuck can some of those parts vote Tory after all they've done to them. Its infuriating.

 

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2 hours ago, StrongStyle said:

I mean this in the nicest possible way - fuck off you insufferable, right-wing Tory cunt.

How sad.

1. I voted Lib Dem and am not a Tory member. I voted to remain in 2016, I voted Lib Dem in 2017, I voted Lib Dem in 2019.

2. As a Jew who lost 2 grandparents in Auschwitz and sees the Labour party and the Corbynism movement as the biggest threat I've ever known in my lifetime, I'm absolutely delighted that Labour have been wiped out.

Perhaps you want to reflect on the fact that the silent majority remains silent time and time again until election day and then votes Tory because the left continuously like to berate anyone that voices views that differ to their own. I never throw personal insults, I never belittle anyone and I never swear at people for their different views.

I passionately believe his country needs a strong opposition for a healthy democracy to function, but if Momentum and Len McCluskey's influence on the Labour party isn't curtailed then I worry that Boris and the Tories will have free reign for a generation - and we've seen time and time again through history that governments that don't have credible opposition become complacent, corrupt and stale.

One more thing - some of the comments on this forum over the last few weeks about Rachel Riley have been absolutely disgusting and those who made them should hang their heads in shame. She's awesome.

 

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She's awesome.

Nah . A lot of people have spoken very well on the anti-semitism issue in Labour at the moment and avoided making it all about themselves or coming across woefully ill informed. Her calling Noam Chomsky an anti-semitie was one of the dumbest things I've ever heard anyone claim.

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On 12/8/2019 at 1:59 PM, MPDTT said:

Made me chuckle. The problem is the looney left is unelectable. Boris can do what he wants. If Labour throw out Momentum, dump Corbyn, McDonald and all those on the hard left and had a centrist leader and manifesto, they'd romp home. Their ideology is dead. It hasn't won a UK election since the 70s and never will again.

I'd vote for whoeever it took to keep Corbyn out of Downing street and I've come to terms with the fact that I may have to accept Brexit as it's a lot less frightening than Comrade Corbyn and that awful manifesto of his.

 

Yep.

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29 minutes ago, ColinBollocks said:

Johnson has said there won't be another one, IIRC. Of course, never take him at his word, but it's not something he'll concede soon. As discussed, I'm interesting to see how Sturgeon gets there.

It's going to be difficult.

The only workable option I can see is appealing to another source - either courts or through the international community - to pressure Johnson into agreeing to recognise the result. We do have the right to self-determination after all.

The other options - holding an unapproved one or simply declaring Independence - will just lead to what we saw in Catalonia, and sitting on our hands will just lead to support evaporating. 

6 minutes ago, MPDTT said:

2. As a Jew who lost 2 grandparents in Auschwitz and sees the Labour party and the Corbynism movement as the biggest threat I've ever known in my lifetime, I'm absolutely delighted that Labour have been wiped out.

With all due respect, I find it mind-blowing that you found Corbyn a bigger threat than the Tories.

Are vague reports of antisemitism in the Labour Party really more worrying than the Tories spending nine years inflaming racial tensions, throwing children into detention centres and deporting people - including British Citizens - to their deaths?

Do you really think the Party that blames immigrants - who are a net contributor to the economy - for all our ills, will even hesitate to turn on Jews as soon as it benefits them?

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52 minutes ago, MPDTT said:

Perhaps you want to reflect on the fact that the silent majority remains silent time and time again until election day and then votes Tory because the left continuously like to berate anyone that voices views that differ to their own. I never throw personal insults, I never belittle anyone and I never swear at people for their different views.

That way of thinking worked ten years ago. Politics is a lot more personal now that people's suffering is a lot more publicized and politicians (and the public's) views become more radicalized. Socio-political issues have become much more ingrained, and topics such as climate change have become heavily interwoven in the conversation.

The party you vote for now has a direct and huge effect on the quality of people's lives, and a vote for the Tory party (just as an example) usually has a negative, lasting effect on those who are less fortunate and those who are already struggling. 

So yeah, shouting down people who "JUST WANT BREXIT DONE, INNIT" even though their vote will cost people their lives, sounds okay to me because we're not just voting on stuff like water rates, public transport costs and what kids get taught at schools anymore.

Edited by Accident Prone

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I assumed I'd feel utterly miserable today, but I just feel flat and dejected.

It's clear that this was a Labour loss far more than it was a Tory win. So what's necessary is a significant amount of reflection and rethinking from the Labour Party. What worries me is that every indication I'm seeing so far is that they'll make a knee-jerk reaction towards another failed ideology.

The received wisdom just about everywhere is that we lost for being too left-wing, and that a return to the centre is the only solution. But that does nothing to address why we also lost under Miliband and under Gordon Brown before that, it does nothing to address why an avowed centrist party in the Lib Dems returned the second lowest number of seats in their history (second only to Nick Clegg post-coalition government) and saw the leader of that party lose her seat.

This absolutely is a time for introspection, but it would be folly for that introspection to not include a serious consideration of why Third Way politics failed. 

 

It would also be absurd to think that a post-Corbyn leader would somehow lead us into a world where the press welcome them with open arms, and are suddenly sympathetic to our cause. Any Labour leader is going to be pilloried by the press for infractions real or imagined. We need to accept that as political reality, and figure out the best means to contend an election with a hostile press, not either shrug and blame them for our failures, or sell out every guiding principle in order to cosy up to them.

 

In the meantime, I recently read the 1979 socialist/feminist book Beyond The Fragments, and the most jarring thing about it is how much it was taken as granted that there was a widely understood British left wing tradition, and how much of that was comprised of community groups, activist movements, local councils, and other agencies working alongside the Labour Party. One of Thatcher's greatest successes, and one that frankly Tony Blair expanded on, was to dismantle and defang each and every one of those organisations, and to lead us into a world where neoliberalism is seen as the natural order of things. We're left no longer rallying for a genuine alternative, but on the back foot defending battles already won. Whereas once British socialists would argue for sweeping reforms, now we're left trying to defend the likes of the NHS - trying to claw back the things we already fought for.

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the left continuously like to berate anyone that voices views that differ to their own

As does everyone, especially in this era of social media.The right are just as bad at doing it, as are those in the centre. It riles everyone up. Whether than be a Corbynista shouting at Luciana Berger for being a Blairite, to Julia Hartley Brewer telling the left to fuck off, or James O'brien, the centirst Dad, sighing at someone who supports either side because he thinks he's right.

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The only thing that is keeping me from feeling rock bottom, is the hope that because Johnson has admitted that a huge factor of his win was Labour voters backing him that it tempers his natural right wng policies a little in a bid to keep those voters in 5 years time(if we get that far).

Apart from that, the results feel bizaar. I've just seen that the more deprived an area has been, the higher the unemployment and the higher the child povety the better the Tory vote was. The only explanation can be that they hope BREXIT will be a magic wand for them(probably due to the immigrints, Muslims an "Darkies" will be booted out meaning things will be rosy for them), which feels really short sighted to me, and the preverbial turkeys voting for Christmas scenario.

Personally, I feel my family and I are very lucky as our Labour MP has held his seat. He's a really good bloke who has bent over backards to help us out on a big issue recently...

 

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