Paid Members Lion_of_the_Midlands Posted October 29, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted October 29, 2019 Still stuck in the usual limbo. 25 thousand Tory majority, big leave voting area. My MP has towed the party line at all times about wanting to leave, so it would seem unlikely that a Brexit Party candidate would get much traction against her. So once again, as I support none of the above my vote will count for very little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members garynysmon Posted October 29, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted October 29, 2019 Much depends on if the first (and only) time voters in the 2016 Referendum can be arsed turning out again. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Factotum Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 (edited) I fail to see how Johnson gets a majority WITHOUT a pact with Farage to not stand down in certain areas, which is quite mad really as Farage is against his Brexit deal.  Quote Still stuck in the usual limbo. 25 thousand Tory majority, big leave voting area. My MP has towed the party line at all times about wanting to leave, so it would seem unlikely that a Brexit Party candidate would get much traction against her. So once again, as I support none of the above my vote will count for very little. I totally get that, but campaigning does help even if it isn't in your own constituencies especially in this election which could be utterly bonkers. Its disheartening I know, but change starts often very small and can grow. Plenty of seats have, over time, been turned. Edited October 29, 2019 by Factotum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted October 29, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted October 29, 2019 5 minutes ago, Factotum said: I fail to see how Johnson gets a majority WITHOUT a pact with Farage to not stand down in certain areas, which is quite mad really as Farage is against his Brexit deal. I've heard BJ's deal compared to soft porn - nobody on either side of the debate wants it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_3165 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Whilst I crave a non-Tory government, I have a hideous feeling that without a credible alternative to Boris and Co we will see another Tory government possibly held up by Farage and the Brexit Party. We are essentially stuck between a compulsive liar who will run rough-shod over parliamentary processes to get what he wants and a communist who seems to have no clear Brexit plan. The whole thing is utterly terrifying if you care about where the country goes next. Boris doesn't care about the UK population, he and his friends will make a fortune when the economy tanks but it will be the poorest that will suffer despite the fact they have been conditioned to vote against their own interests. I have never come across someone who just lies to your face and people still mindlessly parrot his bullshit. I know people who have such a belief that 'Brexit means Brexit' that they can't see that they were sold a false bill of goods or are scared to admit that they were lied to. Someone recently said to me 'I don't care as long as we leave' when talking about Boris' blatant lies. They are still claiming Boris hasn't failed in his promise to leave on the 31/10 because 'other people stopped him'. When you are that deluded its hard to argue. Corbyn lost me when talking about forcibly removing private assets from independent schools. I don't believe that the best way to make society equal is to pull everyone down to the lowest possibly denomination. From a book I have read Corbyn hates much of the way the UK economy works - detesting capitalism over a form of communism where there is no motivation to improve and develop oneself. I also think the guy is extremely stupid intellectually. He says the same shit over and over again every week on PMQs (NHS, food banks, poverty, inequality) but he has never lead at any level - always being someone that sits on the side lines heckling. When he is pushed for a view and position on something controversial he puts off answering, showing a clear lack of ability to make a decision and lead from the front. I don't believe the Liberals have a chance because it doesn't feel right (for most in the UK I believe) to cancel Brexit without another referendum. What happened to this country?! When we can't produce a quality opposition it really is damning for UK politics. Whether you like them or not, Thatcher, Blair and Cameron would have beaten May easily in 2017 and Boris would struggle with those political minds in 2019. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted October 29, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted October 29, 2019 6 minutes ago, Michael_3165 said: a communist who seems to have no clear Brexit plan. Corbyn is not, by any rational metric, a "communist". Quote He says the same shit over and over again every week on PMQs (NHS, food banks, poverty, inequality) Yes, God forbid a political leader concern himself with such trivialities as the health, wellbeing and economic stability of the people of his country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Corbyn is far from perfect, but the very fact that he's not the runaway favourite in any election where he's up against the current lot is absolutely frightening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted October 29, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted October 29, 2019 Unfortunately there's a significant portion of the voting public for whom Corbyn is more toxic than a No Deal Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Factotum Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Quote and a communist  Bloody hell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members garynysmon Posted October 29, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted October 29, 2019 (edited) I always wonder if someone's been exposed to too much American news and popular culture when they describe anyone remotely left wing as a communist. In reality most people don't have a clue what communism actually is. Edited October 29, 2019 by garynysmon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted October 29, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted October 29, 2019 The characterisation of socialist politics above is also off. Who has ever said it's about dragging people down? The most common argument I've heard for reforming the schools system is that, if all schools are state-run, they're more likely to get better, because then all the money that the rich would spend sending their kid to a private school will end up being paid in taxes - they won't want to risk that their kid will get sub-standard education. Same goes for hospitals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyattSheepMask Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Jeremy Corbyn is not a communist. He may be a liar, a pig, an idiot, a communist, but he is not a porn star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 1 minute ago, Carbomb said: The characterisation of socialist politics above is also off. Who has ever said it's about dragging people down? That's the reason why, when discussing socialist policies with people I know I rarely use the term "socialist." I know that for some people it immediately brings up images of miners, the 80's, old fashioned politics and so on. It's even worse with anyone who's "Americanised" politically. I simply refer to Socialist policies as "fair society policies." It's common fucking sense really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Ronnie Posted October 29, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted October 29, 2019 Quote Who are you voting for? We're traditionally a swing town. Two thirds of our voters voted Leave, so I expect our very docile Tory incumbent to hold his seat. I suppose on the basis of not wanting the Tories to do well, I should vote Labour. Ultimately, I would like to see a confirmation on the Withdrawal Agreement, and don't think that a GE is the tool for doing it, but it will be treated as such should the Tories form the new government. But I'm all rather lost. I don't like Labour and don't want to endorse them. In an ideal world, there'd be some sort of Remain alliance and my vote would go there, with Labour signed up to it too. But I don't think they will. Consider North East Somerset, where Dr Phil Hammond is standing as an independent candidate against Rees Mogg. The last time I checked, the Greens and Lib Dems agreed not to field a candidate against him. Labour, however, decided against. Rees Mogg could genuinely be out on his ear just as Neil Hamilton was in 97 when he was challenged only by Martin Bell, if the field were narrowed just to two. And yet they appear willing to see him returned to Parliament. I don't get it. Better to stand a candidate when you stand no chance of winning than see a big-name Tory sent on his way by working with others, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted October 29, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted October 29, 2019 Just now, David said: That's the reason why, when discussing socialist policies with people I know I rarely use the term "socialist." I know that for some people it immediately brings up images of miners, the 80's, old fashioned politics and so on. It's even worse with anyone who's "Americanised" politically. I simply refer to Socialist policies as "fair society policies." It's common fucking sense really. The American definition is a child's one anyway. Nationalisation and state operation are only one aspect of socialism; I'd really like for Labour to really push the narrative about worker co-operatives as a valid alternative to capitalist business models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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