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WWE's lack of creativity


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What is WWE's most tired trope?   

62 members have voted

  1. 1. Which one is the least inspiring creative idea that they still do?

    • Brock as champ
      18
    • Raw vs Smackdown teams at Survivor Series
      42

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  • Poll closed on 10/26/2019 at 11:00 PM

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23 hours ago, Gay as FOOK said:

And it's got to be long term arsed, too. That's the thing. WWE right now pop angles and matches like they're season passes for extra content in a video game. It's been the biggest effect of the Network that hasn't been talked about, in my opinion. Shit gets radically thrown up and out at a moments notice to bump a monthly sub in a way they never used to do with PPV. Best example off the top of my head is Reigns/Cena. 

You can reference me movie schedules or the time's they are a-changin' but fucking hell, if those two were the guys in 1997 you better believe you'd be waiting for months for that teased clashed. They'd find a way to make it so.

Reigns and Cena isn't a very good example of it. It seemed odd at the time to book that at a seemingly-random B-PPV, but Cena hasn't been around much since. The only more opportune time since then to do it would've been at WrestleMania in 2018, instead of doing the Cena vs Undertaker stuff.

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On 10/18/2019 at 5:04 PM, IANdrewDiceClay said:

WWE is very creative. They just have no patience and there is to many people putting their ingredients into the pot.

That's the problem for me.

You've got a massive team of writers, agents and wrestlers all with some input AND everything needs to be approved by management. There's been a few occasions that I can think of where people have done relatively minor things WITHOUT proper approval and been sacked for it - Goldust lost his job as an agent for telling the Prime Time Players they could use an "unapproved" finish, Finlay got sacked for booking the Miz, a heel, to interrupt the national anthem on a house show. Even Daniel Bryan got sacked (sort of) for unknowingly breaking a rule in an angle where he was told to do what he liked. Even commentators have a list of normal, every day, words that they aren't allowed to say. 

Then you've got stuff like the Dan Madigan thing, where he went from being Vince's favourite writer, to a complete joke and then unemployed because of one terrible idea.

All things considered, it's not surprising that everything feels safe and sanitised. I can't imagine trying to be creative in that kind of environment. I'd just be keeping my head down and telling Vince what he wants to hear, like everyone else.

It sounds like an absolutely horrendous place to work.

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A few years ago, I read a dissertation where the writer had contended that wrestling was a medium where there was limitless possibilities for story telling. 

One of the respondents (Colt Cabana..) quoted in said dissertation rejected that completely out of hand. He pointed out that wrestling is essentially the same story being told over and again. The end point must always be the same with one person pinning another. There are also only a limited number of ways that this can be instigated (legit competition/betrayal/revenge/jealous/desire to prove oneself/disagreement between parties). The number of actual stories wrestling can tell is constrained- it must involve conflict within a ring. 

So with the WWE stretching themselves as far as they have, it’s unsurprising that they are becoming ‘uncreative’ as the amount of stories they can tell are so limited. Especially when you have so few stars people actually want to watch. 

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2 hours ago, Great Bear Promotions said:

Especially when you have so few stars people actually want to watch. 

This is always the biggest problem. They come up with all sorts of shit but it doesn't matter. Nothing matters unless people care about the people involved. If you've got genuine stars on top, anything that's done to wrong them is a valid reason for them to seek revenge and set up a match. Then booking becomes very easy. People just don't care about most of this crew of WWE.

Their best "angle" all year was Becky Lynch, who people loved, winning the Royal Rumble, standing opposite Ronda Rousey, who is a genuine star, and saying "I choose you". Simple. Then they tried to be "creative" and somewhat spoiled it. The next best was Kofi Kingston, who people have always being fond of, finally getting an opportunity above his station. Again, they got all "creative" with it and nearly ruined this too but it survived and produced a better moment at WrestleMania than the Lynch win.

I mentioned this a while ago but nothing that doesn't involve a title matters now. Titles are their only storytelling tool. Years ago, you had characters people cared about. So someone not liking Jake Roberts' snake (kenny williams gif) was a three month feud. Ted Dibiase using his wealth to laud over someone was a three month feud. Anyone declaring they could end Hulkamania = buyrate. I fancy Elizabeth = house show run. "You're not perfect" = SNME headliner. They were very creative then too, I'm being simplistic for the point but up and down the card, you had feuds made out of so little. An angle, 6 weeks of pre-tapes and recaps and a house show run all over the country. Half the time, it didn't even get settled on PPV.

What do we have now outside the title picture? Lashley is fucking Lana. Does anyone care even slightly? Chad Gable is small. And? I geneuinely can't think of anything else they've got going on with the regular roster that isn't title matches other than the celebrities they've dragged in for a pop. What is anyone else fighting for?

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3 hours ago, Great Bear Promotions said:

One of the respondents (Colt Cabana..) quoted in said dissertation rejected that completely out of hand. He pointed out that wrestling is essentially the same story being told over and again. The end point must always be the same with one person pinning another. There are also only a limited number of ways that this can be instigated (legit competition/betrayal/revenge/jealous/desire to prove oneself/disagreement between parties). The number of actual stories wrestling can tell is constrained- it must involve conflict within a ring. 

I largely agree with Cabana's point here, but only because you could say the same about all storytelling. Christopher Booker famously argued that there are only seven basic plots in all narrative forms, Propp argued that there are only seven character functions and 31 plot functions in any given story. Broader still, someone once said that almost all western storytelling comes down to one of two plots - "man leaves home", or "a stranger comes to town".

Putting all the theory to one side, the point is that the bare bones of something might be the same story as you've told before, but it's about how you dress it up. We've all watched a lot of wrestling, and can likely all point to several distinct stories told within it, regardless of the fact that the story structure relied on a wrestling match culminating with a victory. I watched Summerslam '94 last night, and Undertaker vs. Fake Undertaker and Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart tell two distinctly different stories both in and out of the ring.

 

Going back to the question at hand, RAW vs. Smackdown teams is the least inspired booking in WWE, and it frustrates me because it could be so much more. People who spend months feuding with one another will put their differences aside because they happen to wear the same colour T-shirt, and rally behind an authority figure who, in many cases, they've also been feuding with, to fight for the honour of a TV show they have no real reason to show allegiance to.

Not that I think WWE should have any more corporate in-fighting storylines than they've already had for the past 20 years, but the core of a RAW vs. Smackdown rivalry isn't the wrestlers arbitrarily drafted to one or the other - it's a conflict between the authority figures in charge of the two brands as, logically, they're the people who have something to prove to the higher ups in this situation, and they're the ones who need to show that their brand is stronger, in order to keep in Vince McMahon/The Board Of Directors' good books.

Rather than just throwing everyone in red or blue shirts, would it not be a more compelling story to contrast how two different authority figures convince wrestlers to join their team, and how the wrestlers who ordinarily would hate each other are now able to work together? You could have so many interlocking stories going on in one match - how hated rivals are going to manage to work together, how a babyface authority figure might convince people to join his team (perhaps offering title shots, promising opportunities) compared to a heel authority figure, who might threaten people with punishments for not joining the team, or not winning the match. Then not only do you have stories to tell in the build-up, and in the match itself, but you have stakes, and stories that can continue long after the match is over.

And that's pretty much WWE's biggest problem now, and of the past few years - zero stakes. Nothing matters. It never feels like a win is a defining, star-making moment. I have no problem with Brock Lesnar as champion, but when they tried to use that to leverage Seth Rollins into being a bigger star by making him the "Beast Slayer", it was all for naught when Brock just won the title back from him. And then when Seth won it back from Brock, he didn't feel twice the star he was for having beaten Brock twice, he felt half the star he was for having not moved forward in any tangible sense.

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I don't think the issue with creative is a more/less discussion so much as they are so deep in the forest, and have to commit to it so much with crazy Vince needing meetings that go beyond 3am, that they completely overthink everything and can't read their audience at all. They've bullshitting themselves into thinking they're something they aren't, so they've lost so many of the things that made the WWF great (fundamental wrestling, just ramped up with the marketing machine).

Then, and this is the real killer - the presentation is death. They swear blind to you that this next thing coming up around the corner is so important, and almost every single time for eighteen years, it's never as good as what people hope for. Why? Because everything about the way they produce the show is so desensitising and so overbearing that you can't truly get into it because you know it's all so hollow. They've killed every wrestler so nobody is a star, they've killed almost every gimmick they have, and who gives a fuck who holds one of the million titles. Ignore what happened in the past - now we want you to take something seriously. Nobody does.

We're still doing Money in the Bank, even though every possible option has been exhausted. We're supposed to care about brand supremacy at Survivor Series after watching this extension for 17 years on and off and never being given a reason why it matters if Raw or Smackdown proves themselves superior since Vince owns it all. They fuck the Rumble by only having 2 people in 14 years win the match and then win the final match at WrestleMania. Oh, and we have two of them a year. Hell in a Cell? Ref stoppage. Creative, but no good. I can't even remember the last Elimination Chamber I gave a shit about. Some concepts have a shelf life, some are timeless, but when you treat everything like it doesn't matter how you preserve it's importance, before long people figure out they can skip it. Wrestling is supposed to grab you by the bollocks, and sometimes it's the most non-creative thing in the world that does it. But execution is key.

NXT is the same now. That show, away from Vince's direct orbit, in theory shouldn't face the same problems as Raw and Smackdown, but it does because it still falls within what WWE is in 2019 as soon as it becomes TV. They tell you the title matches are so important. Are they? Why? This cruiserweight belt was pre-show fodder on the PPVs for years. NOW I'm supposed to shit myself for it? Mauro screaming at me for two hours in the same tone start to finish means that everything is on the same level, and the verbiage is no better than Raw or Smackdown as perfectly demonstrated by Alvarez's rant on the ridiculous lines spewed on this last weeks show ("Mauro, don't be fooled by Priest's composure - his ruthless nature is focused on creating an incandescent presence" - Beth Pheonix). They've done a horrible job with the babyfaces for a while now, Gargano is up shit creek.

Being overly creative isn't even the problem. Even if it was, they could be the most creative creative team ever, and the execution is so overbearing and desensitising that you can't possibly come away from anything excited for what's next.

Edited by Liam O'Rourke
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WWE creative needs to hire a load of 7 year olds. My son had his mini wrestling figures and ring out last night and booked a tag match between The Rock and Roman Reigns (his figures) vs Seth Rollins and The Ultimate Warrior. Loads of no selling by his lads and it turned in to a bit of a squash, enabled in part by Roman's sudden ability to fly. The Ultimate Warrior's arm fell off at one pint which is definitely something WWE have never been brave enough to do.

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31 minutes ago, cobra_gordo said:

WWE creative needs to hire a load of 7 year olds. My son had his mini wrestling figures and ring out last night and booked a tag match between The Rock and Roman Reigns (his figures) vs Seth Rollins and The Ultimate Warrior. Loads of no selling by his lads and it turned in to a bit of a squash, enabled in part by Roman's sudden ability to fly. The Ultimate Warrior's arm fell off at one pint which is definitely something WWE have never been brave enough to do.

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On 10/21/2019 at 9:31 AM, Liam O'Rourke said:

NXT is the same now. That show, away from Vince's direct orbit, in theory shouldn't face the same problems as Raw and Smackdown, but it does because it still falls within what WWE is in 2019 as soon as it becomes TV. They tell you the title matches are so important. Are they? Why? This cruiserweight belt was pre-show fodder on the PPVs for years. NOW I'm supposed to shit myself for it? Mauro screaming at me for two hours in the same tone start to finish means that everything is on the same level, and the verbiage is no better than Raw or Smackdown as perfectly demonstrated by Alvarez's rant on the ridiculous lines spewed on this last weeks show ("Mauro, don't be fooled by Priest's composure - his ruthless nature is focused on creating an incandescent presence" - Beth Pheonix). They've done a horrible job with the babyfaces for a while now, Gargano is up shit creek.

For me a big part of the appeal of NXT a few years ago was routing for your favourites to make it to the main roster. Success being defined by leaving was a very unique approach to wrestling but it included fans on the journey of the wrestlers and also kept the roster fresh. The NXT titles felt so important as it was the most important step on the journey to the main roster - if your favourite wrestler won either the mens or womens titles they were well on their way to moving up which is the journey we were all invested in. This blend of reality and character really worked and felt like it was where wrestling was heading in the 21st century.

Somewhere along the way though that changed. Firstly, the mishandling of NXT call ups and the stagnation of characters once they hit the main roster halted the emotional investment of fans in the journey of their favourite stars. We have reached a point where you would prefer them not to be called up so we aren't really as invested in their journey. Secondly, as the market dried up the signings to NXT shifted from those who might need a bit of seasoning before hitting the main roster to those who we know are never going to make it. Ciampa, Gargano and the Undisputed Era have done some absolutely great stuff but they have turned NXT into just another self contained promotion. The belt is now just another championship only one we know is just the title on a B level show. It doesn't feel like a stepping stone anymore so it doesn't feel important in the same way.

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I think the issue these days is that McMahon considers it an 'entertainment' company and not a 'wrestling' company anymore (although I know he's always tried to evade being a 'wrestling' company). It used to be that the story lines all tied into the matches as the main focus, so there was reason to invest in the story lines culminating in the wrestling matches you want to see, the heel get his comeuppance or the face get the big title win.

Nowadays, I think if Vince could bin off the actual matches and just be writing Coronation Street episodes instead, that's what he wants. He's just writing shitty reality/soap story lines that happen to need wrestling matches in there somewhere, but they are of no consequence and don't matter, so the matches can be ten stars, but what does it matter if those are just getting in the way and are just a means to an end.

The problem is, the story lines are shite and due to this, the fact that we don't care about the matches as they basically don't matter at all as we're not invested, means that as a whole, it's just a stagnant mess of a company and has been for a long time.

Edited by digitalversicolor
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