Racism and homophobia in football

[StrongStyle]

1 hour ago, David said:

You have "perhaps" fudged your words? That's an understatement and a half.

You've basically done your best to justify the racial abuse of a footballer, using some weird half-arsed argument that Aberdeen has some of the most racist fans you've seen in Scotland or something. You can try to back out of it, but it's all right there. Which leads me to...

Nice try. It's clear that "the accuser" you were referring to was Shay Logan, which is why you then went on to explain how much of a cunt he is. In your eyes, him being a cunt at least partially explains why he was abused, racially or otherwise.

Just admit that you came steaming into the discussion and proceeded to make a roaring cunt of yourself.

Please present to me, in plain English, where I have justified the racial abuse of Shay Logan. I've done nothing of the sort - I did concede that my language regarding Logan was reductionist, but at no point have I ever said that the racial abuse he experienced was fine or justified. It was a case of Logan's word against Tonev's - it was rightly investigated and a verdict was reached. I have an axe to grind with Logan in that he perceives being booed out of the building whenever he plays Celtic as racist abuse. It's surely nothing to do with the fact that he's forever trying to establish himself as a hardman (and failing) by picking fights with Scott Brown, who has made him look like a bitch on countless occasions.  Like I said earlier on, you can't brand 60,000 people as racist. It cheapens the argument and it is a perpetuated fallacy that Celtic fans have some sustained hatred of Logan because he had the courage to speak about about racial abuse.

I've already somewhat admitted to making a roaring cunt of it - I should have just copped out and blamed it on the "Bigot Brothers".

[PowerButchi]

1 hour ago, StrongStyle said:

 Like I said earlier on, you can't brand 60,000 people as racist.

 

 

But it happens. Everyone who voted Brexit is racist apparently and that's millions. All Americans are racist apparently and that's even more. 

[Richard]

Or how about we stop playing games and understand people have an inherent trait to their own tribes, whether it be ethnically or racially. Europeans are naturally altruistic that goes back to hunter-gatherer societies. Such altruism is a strength, but when natural altruistic trait becomes pathological it becomes more vulnerable towards it being manipulated and redirected towards it's own demise through marxist institution inputs like mass immigration and authoritarian-liberalism. When Europeans are denied their right to exist and the working class' voice are neglected and branded simply racist and bigoted there is bound to be backlash. Brexit was a reaction to that. As we know, Brexit has been a farce. Just like Trump's presidency it was undermined from the start. 

Those populist platforms Trump and UKIP ran on in 2016 are long dead. Brexit is a joke, Trumpism even more so. That being said the populist wave in Europe is only going to get more illiberal, and the more controlled far-right parties like PiS in Poland and the social democrats of Sweden are being exposed as being bankrolled by wall street and controlled by globalists, the more facist-leaning parties are going to thrive. As we have seen in Bulgaria recently.

For the record. I'm not white. My Mum was born in Algeria and her folks immigrated during the windrush era, but I voted out. Probably wouldn't again, given the sham we've been put through in the past three years.

Anyway. Instead of being up in arms about some Bulgarians doing roman salutes or whatever, actually analyze the symptoms of the cause rather than filibustering and acting like everything is fine. It's not. 

Edited October 19, 2019 by Richard

[David]

2 hours ago, StrongStyle said:

Please present to me, in plain English, where I have justified the racial abuse of Shay Logan.

Look, you can try and explain your way out of it, but when the topic of a black player who plays for Aberdeen being racially abused by a Celtic player was raised, your immediate reaction was:

Quote

Are the accusers always holy? Like I've said in this thread before, the absolute worst racial abuse I've heard in this country was at Pittodrie. Are 60,000 people at Celtic Park racist? Probably not. Have a word with yourself. Shay Logan is a cunt - so are some sections of the Celtic fans. Grow up.

If that isn't justification I don't know what is. Why did you immediately jump from an Aberdeen player being racially abused by a Celtic player to talking about Aberdeen fans being the worst at being racist? It's a classic case of whataboutery, which is something that followers of both Rangers and Celtic know a thing or two about.

You back-pedalled furiously by claiming that when you remarked "are the accusers always holy?" that you were actually talking about fans like me, rather than the guy who you focused on throughout your post. It was obvious you were questioning Logan's character, and suggesting that because he's "not always holy," that he's "a cunt" and that because Aberdeen fans are terrible that he somehow brought it on himself? Otherwise, why even mention those things?

2 hours ago, StrongStyle said:

I have an axe to grind with Logan in that he perceives being booed out of the building whenever he plays Celtic as racist abuse.

No, Logan doesn't perceive being booed as racist abuse. He's admitted on many occasions that he enjoys the banter with fans. Logan says he's been subjected to racist abuse from Celtic fans (and Rangers fans by the way, if that makes it any easier for you to accept.) Maybe he's got it wrong though, eh? I mean, what with him actually being black and all that, growing up in Manchester, maybe he doesn't quite understand what racist abuse is, right? He's gotten it wrong? 

It seems pretty cut & dried to me. Before the incident with the Bulgarian lad at Celtic giving him racist abuse there was rarely any grief dished out to Logan by Celtic fans. After he accuses a Celtic player of racism, and Celtic lodge an appeal which they then go on to lose, he's suddenly subjected to abuse whenever the sides meet, and also on social media. But that's just a coincidence, right? 

2 hours ago, StrongStyle said:

Like I said earlier on, you can't brand 60,000 people as racist. It cheapens the argument and it is a perpetuated fallacy that Celtic fans have some sustained hatred of Logan because he had the courage to speak about about racial abuse.

It wasn't because he had the courage to speak out about racist abuse, it's because he had the sheer fucking audacity to call out a Celtic player. That's a big no-no, isn't it? Celtic don't do racism, right? As Rodgers said when asked about it, they're "the greatest fans in the world," so there had to be a mistake somewhere. Logan got it wrong, he wasn't racially abused.

2 hours ago, StrongStyle said:

I've already somewhat admitted to making a roaring cunt of it - I should have just copped out and blamed it on the "Bigot Brothers".

Even better, you should have had a think before posting. I've never really interacted with you before on here, and I certainly don't have any issue with you in general, but if you're going to post the kind of drivel you've posted you're going to get called out on it. You have to expect that.

[StrongStyle]

Fair enough - I'll "take the L" on this one. You seem like an intelligent lad and I spoke somewhat out of turn. For maximum transparency, it doesn't make me feel better that Shay Logan was racially abused by Rangers fans as well. As I've stated previously, I'm a Hibs fan, so do not take my defence of Celtic's fans as support. If anything, the Rangers anecdote makes me even more depressed that we have a serious problem with racist abuse in Scotland.

I suppose my ultimate axe to grind is that it's often too easy to blame the Old Firm clubs as they are the best supported and have a highly publicised history of bigoted rivalry. That makes it easier to apportion blame onto them.

[stumobir]

Jeeeez David, you’re like a dog with a bone at times. The guy practically concedes defeat and you keep going.

I actually enjoy reading most of your posts but you need to learn when to call it a day.

[Loki]

9 hours ago, Richard said:

Or how about we stop playing games and understand people have an inherent trait to their own tribes, whether it be ethnically or racially. Europeans are naturally altruistic that goes back to hunter-gatherer societies. Such altruism is a strength, but when natural altruistic trait becomes pathological it becomes more vulnerable towards it being manipulated and redirected towards it's own demise through marxist institution inputs like mass immigration and authoritarian-liberalism. When Europeans are denied their right to exist and the working class' voice are neglected and branded simply racist and bigoted there is bound to be backlash. Brexit was a reaction to that. As we know, Brexit has been a farce. Just like Trump's presidency it was undermined from the start. 

This might be the biggest pile of pseudo-intellectual shit I've ever read on this forum.  You need to stop reading InfoWars and shitty fringe supremacist websites and rejoin the real world.  Your ethnic background doesn't excuse you parroting nonsense like this.

[Richard]

27 minutes ago, Loki said:

This might be the biggest pile of pseudo-intellectual shit I've ever read on this forum.  You need to stop reading InfoWars and shitty fringe supremacist websites and rejoin the real world.  Your ethnic background doesn't excuse you parroting nonsense like this.

infowars? Shut up lad. Don't make me embarrass you. 

Edited October 19, 2019 by Richard

[Richard]

it's difficult having the best takes on this forum. If you want to pick my brain feel free to PM me. I work most days.

[Mr_Danger]

14 hours ago, PunkStep said:

It's almost as if the contributors to newspapers are  the newspapers journalists expressing their own papers point of view, for some reason...

[Wretch]

"Haringey Borough's FA Cup fourth qualifying round clash with Yeovil was abandoned after the home side walked off the pitch amid reports their goalkeeper was racially abused."

Edited October 19, 2019 by Wretch

[Grecian]

Having been to games both at Yeovil and seeing them come to Exeter and heard the homophobic bile they spouted at our players, that doesn't surprise me at all. 

[Loki]

6 hours ago, Richard said:

infowars? Shut up lad. Don't make me embarrass you. 

[StrongStyle]

Yet another allegation in Scotland.

Hearts have opened an investigation after claims that Rangers striker Alfredo Morelos was racially abused in Sunday's Scottish Premiership draw.

The Colombian was allegedly targeted as he celebrated his equaliser in front of the Hearts supporters at Tynecastle.

Police Scotland say they are unaware of any complaints, with the only arrest made being for a separate incident.

"The club is aware of an incident of alleged racism and is currently investigating it," read a statement.

"It goes without saying that Heart of Midlothian Football Club utterly condemns any form of racism and any individuals found guilty of such an offence will face an indefinite ban from Tynecastle Park."

I am in support of bringing in stadium closures and docked points. It's the only solution that we haven't tried yet.

[PunkStep]

Thread title change to 'Racism in Scottish Football', @Devon Malcolm?