Paid Members Supremo Posted September 14, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted September 14, 2019 Art. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonworden Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 12 hours ago, Richard said: Dancing is socially acceptable. Strictly is shit, but pro-wrestling is worse. Dancing is quite clearly a respected art form that stretches back centuries and is a pillar of not only western civilization but the entire world. It transcends language. Pro-wrestling is gutter entertainment to be honest. It's embarrassing. Anyone that extracts any kind of emotional attachment to wrestling after a certain age hasn't lived. If you've gone through addictions, broken relationships, lost loved ones and been laid off work, you can take pro-wrestling or leave it. I think if you could expand on some of the points above with reasons it might help people discuss things with you. If you are looking for a brutal argument you've probably come to the wrong forum as most people on here these days tend to be pretty civil with each other. But I will comment on a few of your initial points. Before you make any assumptions i'm married, full time employed and starting a family next year once our higher level studies are complete. In some respects the base form of pro-wrestling also transcends language, I could go to anywhere in the world and watch a wrestling match and understand what is going on. When we expand to the non-wrestling story telling element then yes, it doesn't work as well but it depends on what aspect you are talking about which brings me to the next point. I genuinely think a pro-wrestling match in its base form of an in ring match can be considered an art form, however so much of what surrounds it these days and for a long time take away from that. Is Mae Young giving birth to a hand art, no that is embarrassing, however what about Bret Hart vs Owen Hart at Wrestlemania 10? There's multiple elements in there that I would consider an art form from both the movement in the wrestling and the telling of somewhat of a classic story. Wrestling is a low level attraction, it came from same places as circuses, music halls and travelling fairs. Essentially everything since then has been added to it to benefit the TV audience and keep it interesting and relevant. It will appeal to the same kind of people who go to a pantomime at Christmas or go to watch a Demolition Derby. Should we look down on people who do that? No just like we shouldn't to those who watch X Factor and the like. I'm unclear on where you draw the line with emotional attachment? At times I can get very drawn into wrestling and where something is going, it excites me and is actually a little bit of escapism. Take it or leave it is a good way to describe how I feel about the product these days, i've been sat on All Out for weeks as i'm too busy to watch it, but then I've followed the set up of AEW and their new TV excites me. I don't really see how the four things you listed as going through apply to taking or leaving wrestling to be honest, i'm sorry if you have gone through those and I've experienced a couple myself, I actually found going to a wrestling show or watching some old shows to actually cheer me up to be honest. Finally to go back to the OP question, i'd say its both depending upon what aspect you are looking at while perhaps speaking to different people would give you a different side of the coin. There's plenty of avid fans who would argue its up their with international ballet, high class theatre and football however that really isn't true. It does have the benefit of having elements of dance, theatre and sport, it is simply Wrestling. However I think more people should also be less dismissive of it as something that does bring joy to many people especially the young, old and unwell, it's for everyone and i'm sure a few more would enjoy it if the stigma wasn't there but that's not going away anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavemanLynn Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 33 minutes ago, Supremo said: Art. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted September 14, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted September 14, 2019 (edited) Wrestling is as much a piece of art as an Arnold Schwarzenegger movie, an Avengers movie, an episode of The A-Team, an ACDC song, a pantomime or a Lee Childs novel. Whether you think of those things as art or not is up to the individual, I reckon. Edited September 14, 2019 by LaGoosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 Whenever this topic comes up, I always break out a quote from 70s Dutch footballer Ruud Krol. “Football isn’t art, but there is artistry in doing it right”. Same applies to people play fighting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Tommy! Posted September 14, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted September 14, 2019 Someone I knew once said wrestling is just a panto in pants, and that's always how I'll see it and ultimately why I like it. That said I don't know what half baked irrelevant degree course that person had attended, so it might be irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members gmoney Posted September 14, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted September 14, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Richard said: I'll be waiting. 7 seconds away. My opinion on the matter is that if it's good enough for Andy Warhol, then it's probably a load of old shit. Edited September 14, 2019 by gmoney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyUK Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 (edited) Well I mean art is subjective anyway, but like was mentioned above, there is definitely an artistry in doing a pro wrestling match right that your average person probably doesn’t appreciate much as they should. The goofy soap opera elements are definitely not high brow but then do the general public usually mention that when they dismiss wrestling anyway? We live in a society that eats that shit up. It’s the choreographed violence that people take the piss out of the most part, but then I don’t think it’s exactly rocket science as to why people find that entertaining either. Edited September 14, 2019 by AndyUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ReturnOfTheMack Posted September 14, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted September 14, 2019 Who gives a fuck about high brow? That shit changes with the years. People treat Shakespear as high brow, but he wrote some of the goofiest shit I have ever seen. One play literally has stage directions for a character to be chased off stage by a bear, others contain near constant dick jokes. Pro wrestling and panto are cousins in performance, and that comes from Commedia Dell Arte which is celebrated as classic artistry despite being where we get the term slapstick from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyattSheepMask Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 (edited) Boxing gets referred to as the “Sweet Science”, but would you call it an art-form? Like other things that have been mentioned in this thread, including wrestling, there is clearly a certain skill level required, but whether it’s artistic or not even by its most base definition is down to individual interpretation, and what the opening poster seems to be more concerned with is the perception of wrestling in popular culture. What wrestling definitely is though, is a looked down on form of entertainment perceived to be watched by geeks, simpletons and/or virgins. I saw an advert recently (for some credit card, can’t remember which one) and it opens with a guy whose gone to watch the wrestling with his misses. First line he says?- “I’ve never understood Scripted Fighting”. Even the people who decided to use wrestling in it’s ad don’t want the stigma/negative connotations that come with it. It’s seen as the lowest of the low. And you don’t need a sociology degree to tell you that Edited September 14, 2019 by WyattSheepMask Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 51 minutes ago, WyattSheepMask said: Boxing gets referred to as the “Sweet Science”, but would you call it an art-form? No, because it's a sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Dem Wanz Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 (edited) 54 minutes ago, WyattSheepMask said: B] I saw an advert recently (for some credit card, can’t remember which one) and it opens with a guy whose gone to watch the wrestling with his misses. First line he says?- “I’ve never understood Scripted Fighting”. Even the people who decided to use wrestling in it’s ad don’t want the stigma/negative connotations that come with it. It’s seen as the lowest of the low. And you don’t need a sociology degree to tell you that You haven't seen the other version of that advert have you? The same couple is at a festival and the girl says she doesn't understand shitting in a field watching live music (or words to that effect), it doesn't have anything to do with demeaning wrestling. Edited September 14, 2019 by Otto Dem Wanz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyattSheepMask Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 Just now, Otto Dem Wanz said: You haven't seen the other version of that advert have you? Admittedly no, but I seem to recall something about the guy who doesn’t get Scripted Fighting and a music festival, so I’m assuming it’s the reverse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Dem Wanz Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 Just now, WyattSheepMask said: Admittedly no, but I seem to recall something about the guy who doesn’t get Scripted Fighting and a music festival, so I’m assuming it’s the reverse. Indeed, clarified my earlier post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyattSheepMask Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Otto Dem Wanz said: Indeed, clarified my earlier post You hadn’t edited it by that point 😁. They’re as bad as eachother then by shying away from just calling them what they are Edited September 14, 2019 by WyattSheepMask Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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