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I don’t think Page is being depicted as having an addiction to drink, he drinks cause he is sad, and to fit in. He’s not sad cause he drinks 

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I love when he turns up always carrying a glass of Jack Daniel's. Reminds me of Julian from Trailer Park Boys:

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I hope he keeps the booze aspect of his character but turns it into a positive because he loves having a drink rather than a crutch for his self doubt. That angle they did where he came out with a beer, placed it on the turn buckle, hit a big lariat, picked up his beer and immediately left was absolutely immense. 

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7 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

I hope he keeps the booze aspect of his character but turns it into a positive because he loves having a drink rather than a crutch for his self doubt. That angle they did where he came out with a beer, placed it on the turn buckle, hit a big lariat, picked up his beer and immediately left was absolutely immense. 

Agreed. There's nothing wrong with turning up to wrestle sober and ready to kick ass, then grabbing a victory brew after putting in the work.

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22 hours ago, BomberPat said:

I've said before that I'm pretty convinced that Omega assumed Ibushi would come with him to AEW, and that whatever they're doing with Omega and Page is them retrofitting a Golden Lovers story on to a new character. I don't think it's a coincidence that Kenny Omega almost immediately booked himself into an emotionally motivated tag team break-up story, he just changed things around to fit the change of cast.

I don't think you're wrong in that elements of this angle are something Kenny may have thought of doing with Ibushi...he didn't quite immediately book himself into this tag story in AEW though. Rather, his immediate booking gives me the impression the story of insecurity and self-doubt was actually originally intended more for his own arc. This exciting new company starting up, bringing the guy everyone's been talking about for the past several years and supposed best wrestler on the planet right at the centre of it. Coming in with all these big expectations, only to flounder and lose all his big matches. Particularly the bit that opened Dynamite following his match with Moxley, where he's told he's not cleared to compete, he asks about Mox and the Doc is like 'yeah, he's all good, cleared and wrestling tonight'. Omega seems utterly dejected hearing that and as though he's really doubting himself and the perception he'd come over with. Only for that to get seemingly abandoned shortly after and the angle retconned to fit Page instead and give Kenny a slightly different direction. 

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5 hours ago, CavemanLynn said:

Agreed. There's nothing wrong with turning up to wrestle sober

(1) Have I slipped into some parallel universe?

___________________________________

(2) Either I'm grossly underestimating the strength of these characters & their 'stories', or there's a lot of teenage-esque, fan-fiction & man-love being talked on here. Outside of this & similar Twitter bubbles, I don't see any of this stuff (Omega, Paige, Bucks) being even of remote interest to casual/occasional viewers, or people with little or no knowledge of Japanese wrestling and particularly BTE. I'm wilfully in the latter category. How does the Ibushi thing being mentioned link to anything, for the great majority who know nothing of him and little of Omega, or their history? There's a certain level of smarkiness involved. Seemingly, a proportion of you can't recognise the hammiest of piss-poor acting, even when it's manifestly right in front of you. The Paige stuff has been laboured and awful, as have all the BTE angles. I had more belief in Papa Shango. At least he started and finished matches without having to neck a drink, go for a little cry, or worry about what his 'friends' were thinking. With a touch of luck, it'll be blown apart and largely forgotten about. We'll then see what they really have to offer; good, bad or indifferent.

 

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So you would rather your wrestlers had no real character developments than all this effort they put in? BTE is for the fans who want more then the 2 hours of wrestling they get. If you don't want to watch it, thats fine. But those who do (and I am someone who has really only started watching regularly since the beginning of this year) get rewarded with stories that play out with much more depth. I would compare it like a book with a film adaption. You can enjoy the 2 hour film they made based on a book, but the book gives you much more depth and information and background then what they could ever cram into a 2 hour film. 

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15 minutes ago, KingofSports said:

(1) Have I slipped into some parallel universe?

___________________________________

(2) Either I'm grossly underestimating the strength of these characters & their 'stories', or there's a lot of teenage-esque, fan-fiction & man-love being talked on here. Outside of this & similar Twitter bubbles, I don't see any of this stuff (Omega, Paige, Bucks) being even of remote interest to casual/occasional viewers, or people with little or no knowledge of Japanese wrestling and particularly BTE. I'm wilfully in the latter category. How does the Ibushi thing being mentioned link to anything, for the great majority who know nothing of him and little of Omega, or their history? There's a certain level of smarkiness involved. Seemingly, a proportion of you can't recognise the hammiest of piss-poor acting, even when it's manifestly right in front of you. The Paige stuff has been laboured and awful, as have all the BTE angles. I had more belief in Papa Shango. At least he started and finished matches without having to neck a drink, go for a little cry, or worry about what his 'friends' were thinking. With a touch of luck, it'll be blown apart and largely forgotten about. We'll then see what they really have to offer; good, bad or indifferent.

 

Just because you aren't enjoying it or believing in it, it doesn't mean it's hammy or piss poor or whatever else. Clearly it's aimed at a certain subsection of the fanbase for maximum effect and it's working on a lot of levels for them, while there's some stuff there that the general audience can sink their teeth into as well.

The audience reactions Hangman was getting before prove that the storyline itself was working. Going from an overpushed guy that not many people cared about to one of the most over acts in the company can't be underestimated.

Again - just because you're not invested in it, it really doesn't mean that it's a failure or that they should forget about what they've done up until this point. That would be the worst thing they could do.

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46 minutes ago, KingofSports said:

Either I'm grossly underestimating the strength of these characters & their 'stories', or there's a lot of teenage-esque, fan-fiction & man-love being talked on here. Outside of this & similar Twitter bubbles, I don't see any of this stuff (Omega, Paige, Bucks) being even of remote interest to casual/occasional viewers, or people with little or no knowledge of Japanese wrestling and particularly BTE.

It's very much both. You're intentionally underestimating it (to the point of lol, can't spell Page, lol, it's like a girl's name). Also, there's a lot of teenage-esque, fan-fiction and man-love being talked on here. Which you may not realise is a pretty popular area in its own right, and a potentially enormous casual audience. 

Also, depressingly, teenage-esque, fan-fiction, man-love based storylines are fucking miles ahead in terms of sophistication to the majority of wrestling storylines for a long time.

I mean, Christ, can you imagine if wrestling didn't just appeal to sad middle-aged loners?

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There's such a huge queer and teenage girl fandom in wrestling and as much as I can't stand Kenny from an acting standpoint if there's any guy that's going to tap in to that well and do good business from it it's him.

EDIT: didn't Dave say that there's been a boost in the womens demographic watching recently?

Edited by Merzbow

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The idea that wrestling should always have the least sophisticated story telling is nonsense, we are in age where TV has never had more in depth stories, there’s no reason wrestling should be different

People want that.

Wrestling’s audience hasn’t been children for a long time.

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I don't watch BTE that much to be honest and have absolutely no knowledge of the stuff these lads were doing in the Bullet Club, but the story is obviously genuinely working for an audience here who like the rather soap episodic aspect. Hangman getting over like a motherfucker is proof positive to that. But as I have no back history, Adam Page was a completely brand new character, never seem him wrestle before. Thought he a bang average upper card guy that were trying with until they started the Hangman has actual human dimensions angle. In WWE he'd be sat with a goofy psychiatrist looking at inkblots and falling out shitty bars on some terrible remote skit.

The crowd surfing on the Jericho Cruiser was probably the beginning of everyone going 'Ahhh this guy, yeah they fixed it' then they absolutely drew me in with the simple and obvious story that the Bucks knew what Page was dealing with, and while mates, you have titles to win and more money for winning. So they try to competitively gaslight the guy while his mate and TAG TEAM CHAMPION because the Bucks are too cool for school like him, actually sides with them saying their the best. The fact none of them understand why he's drinking adds another great layer to it. They are completely ignorant to their mates problems and thus turn on him when they actually manipulated it themselves, but release any responsibility for it. 

The Revolution tag match was an incredible piece of work, and unfortunately the pandemic delayed what he have now, but the moment I got completely on Adam Page being their Sting (the hero who gets fucked over) was the Dynamite after Revolution where he stumbles out a bit tipsy during a brawl, balanced his beer on the ringpost, hit the buckshot on Hagar while in his shitkicker shirt and cowboy boots, downs his pint and then just to add the cherry, walks up to that arrogant prat Matt Jackson and just flips him and storms off... Like a fucking boss.

I don't get how anyone can't get into this storyline. What a mad reason to hate an angle, because and it was veiled in that post a few back that basically they think it's basically a bit gay. In wrestling of all things.

Edited by Chili

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1 hour ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

So you would rather your wrestlers had no real character developments than all this effort they put in? BTE is for the fans who want more then the 2 hours of wrestling they get. If you don't want to watch it, thats fine. But those who do (and I am someone who has really only started watching regularly since the beginning of this year) get rewarded with stories that play out with much more depth. I would compare it like a book with a film adaption. You can enjoy the 2 hour film they made based on a book, but the book gives you much more depth and information and background then what they could ever cram into a 2 hour film. 

The problem is that BTE doesn't even follow it's own Canon, the subtext of the bucks being dicks and the hangman goes into the woods to find himself could easily be worked into the main story, but omega in the last 6 weeks has gone from being afraid of the writers to teasing the cleaner to ham-fisted yelling at nakazawa. I've said it before, They need to pick BTE's lane and stick to it. 

 

I'll retract all that if the bucks super kick Brandon cutler on dark though. 

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BTE has become pretty clear about the difference between the comedy stuff and the non-comedy stuff. Also, Kenny's cowardice and story with Colt, etc, was clearly dropped when he got frustrated with FTR turning up, and told Colt outright that he'd stop doing the comedy stuff and fucking murder him if he saw him again. It's not like it's some incredibly confusing thing - they're pretty obvious when it's silliness rather than story. Look at Colt doing the face injury stuff following the Best Friends 'murder' attempt, while he's showing up fine on Dynamite.

The Dark Order are obviously great, but the best thing this week (which I never thought I'd say) was Michael Nakazawa. This week had the revelation that his feelings were hurt when he wasn't in the Battle Royale, so sabotaged Matt Sydal by covering the turnbuckle in baby oil so he'd slip and break his neck. As soon as I realised where they were going, I started laughing.

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