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Managed to get a question right on Who wants to be a millionaire last night thanks to AEW

A mimosa is similar to which other cocktail?

Pina colada / Cosmopolitan / Bucks Fizz / Mojito

I just blurted out - A little bit of the bubbly. 

 

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Right people, right time, just the wrong location.

Fucking hell who’s arsed. Let people get excited about things.

For a TV Guide photoshoot promoting a new wrestling show, this is what you want to see. Not you brothers wedding reception, like those cunts above. You're selling professional wrestling. Nothing else.

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10 hours ago, Yakashi said:

Moves and flips and star ratings are the most important thing to the vast majority of this generation of wrestlers.

 

5 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

I hope they learn that hey maybe each match doesn't need 20 minutes and 5000 moves, the "sports entertainment" shit when done right will make you much more money and draw in the new fans and also less chance of the wrestlers dying.

The biggest problem with it been run by a smark like Tony Khan is that you seriously doubt that he knows that. He's surrounded by guys like the Young Bucks who are the embodiment of that sort of style and it shows. It's not just them either, as Yakashi says, it's this entire generation.

It needs to be massively toned down. That's not a reaction to Saturday night. That was an accident. Whatever we think of the aftermath, it was just two guys hitting a big spot to stand out. There'll always been room for that, especially for a generation of guys who've grown up seeing Mick Foley being thrown off the HIAC and the Hardys and Dudleys and E&C smashing through shit from a great height. It could and should be safer but it's what it is, a blown, dangerous spot. Used sparingly, that's OK.

The constant diving and jumping for such little reward will hurt more people in the long run. It's so completely unneccessary. Look at what Jericho and OC have done for the last few months. It might not be for everyone but it's been highly entertaining stuff for the most part between a guy who works snug but safe and a guy who barely works at all and they are two of the 3 or 4 most over acts on the show, if not the country.

Work hard, work snug, up the pace when the match heats up. That's all brilliant. Chuck in the odd high spot for your finish or when you really need to up the ante. But look after yourselves. That's the message that needs pinning in every WWE, NXT, AEW and (last time I watched it) Impact lockerroom.

You'd think the problems a guy like Daniel Bryan had would really hit home given i imagine most of these guys really look up to him but perhaps not.

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The Matt Hardy injury scared the hell out of me, and I was fuming watching it. While never anything that serious, I've refereed matches where a guy might have got hurt, and I've had the promoter at ringside asking me if they're alright, and all I've been able to reply with is "he says he's okay". It's a hard spot to be in. But that wasn't an obvious head injury, where - even more than anything else where wrestlers will just stubbornly try to continue - "he says he's okay" is never enough, it's not their call.

That the referee quite rightly stopped the match, and the doctor stopped the match, yet someone made the call to restart it, was awful. That's two people who should have the authority to make those decisions, and should be trusted with that authority - all they've done now is set a precedent that undermines them, and tells everyone in the locker room that their safety is less important than the angle; because I'm 100% certain the only reason the match continued was to get to the big bump and finish the match to protect the "Matt Hardy will leave AEW" stipulation. When he was trying to get back to his feet and continue the match, the way he was stumbling over himself reminded me of Sting in his last match, which was probably the last time I was that scared watching a match.

It honestly amazed me how many people on Twitter were just talking about concussion protocol - with that bump, concussions honestly couldn't have been further from my mind, and would have been the least of his worries. He's lucky not to have ended up with a fractured skull.

In terms of protecting the stipulation, if that matters, there's a hundred ways they could have got there without making a half-conscious man climb a scaffold. If they insisted on doing the bump, they could have called an audible and sent out a potential ally of Matt Hardy to chase Guevera up the scaffold. If they just wanted to not have to honour the stipulation, they could have said that a referee stoppage wasn't considered a victory for Sammy as there was never a ten count. Given that Matt Hardy's whole gimmick is that he transitions between multiple forms, "Matt Hardy" could have left and come back as Damascus, or some other pseudonym - I'm sure he worked under a mask at some point, or could come up with a new masked gimmick to ride out the stipulation. And those were all ideas that occurred to me within a few minutes of the match being restarted, they have a whole booking team to figure this shit out.

 

Beyond the most glaring stuff on the PPV, the biggest problem was that there's a clear lack of intelligent agenting of matches. It's not just flips and dives, which I've come to accept as part of modern wrestling, but incredibly specific spots repeated within the same show. Two consecutive matches featured a Swanton Bomb countered by the target wrestler getting their knees up. Two tag matches on the same night featured the exact same double team, where one guy did a German Suplex and the other followed up with a bridging jack-knife pin. 

One of AEW's selling points has been that they let wrestlers do their own thing without oppressive oversight, but there's a middle ground between Vince McMahon micro-management and matches existing in a bubble so that there's no sense of real ebb and flow across the whole show, and where there's completely avoidable repetition that I wouldn't stand for on a small indie show, let alone something with the scope and budget of AEW.

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The decision to allow Hardy to continue was shocking and was obviously down to panicking they didn't get the right finish which was just daft. It also opened up the floodgates to the amount of negative reactions they (quite rightly) got. 

I enjoyed the tag title match, the Mimosa match and the main event. Everything else seemed like Dynamite, especially with the lack of a set making it look different. They have put more effort into the set on special episodes of Dynamite. 

There was enough to enjoy but it was their weakest PPV to date. 

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Not so much the Foley / Taker HIAC match, but the initial TLC match and to some degree, the first ladder match between the Hardyz / Edge & Christian for the services of Terri Runnels are still talked about with find memories of how 'hardcore' they were, however, since then, there has been thousands more extreme matches than those, that are forgotten about by the next episode, never mind the next PPV. 

There is no wonder guys have to near enough brain themselves these days to get a reaction, to which most of the time they don't.

The Darby bodybag spot, while completely unnecessary especially in a battle royale, will be forgotten about next week. Speaks volumes to what these guys are willing to do to get themselves over.

The attitude era, while great at the time, ruined wrestling forever in my opinion. Yes, there were death matches etc in Japan long before the Attitude era, but the guys coming through now, their first experiences of wrestling will have been, as mentioned, Foley in the HIAC, Shane chucking himself off high things, HHH and Foley going through drawing pins with Barbed Wire bats. 

I speak purely of the Attitude Era and no so much ECW or Japan as the Attitude Era was the meat and potatoes at the the time.

It just shows how much it is still viewed, with people moaning about PG Era, some circa 15 years after its inception. Watching the Attitude Era back now on the Network, majority of it was terrible, but there is no doubt what influence it has had on the business from then and is still being felt now.

The other issue, is I struggle to see how you can away from it, for all that AEW is different, you only have to look at the twitter hashtag to see how many people are talking about how edgy the programme is with the swearing and chair shots to the head. AEW set their stall out early with the Spears chair shot to Cody.

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7 minutes ago, Nick James said:

Not so much the Foley / Taker HIAC match, but the initial TLC match and to some degree, the first ladder match between the Hardyz / Edge & Christian for the services of Terri Runnels are still talked about with find memories of how 'hardcore' they were, however, since then, there has been thousands more extreme matches than those, that are forgotten about by the next episode, never mind the next PPV. 

I've always said about Mick Foley that what people miss is that it wasn't just the bumps, it's that Mick Foley was the one taking them. He elicited so much sympathy from the audience, and sold so well, that he made every one of those huge bumps really mean something. Jeff Hardy in TLC matches was along the same lines. Someone else taking twice as big a bump doesn't mean as much when the audience don't care about the person.

Though as I say that, Foley also did so much completely unnecessary shit outside of the big famous matches, so he was as bad as anyone - the Hell In A Cell bump was one thing, but he was getting shot knees first into metal steps in nothing TV matches, or taking bumps on the floor in a five minute filler match.

 

Just remembering how much I hated the 8-man tag match. Complete nonsense.

QT Marshall, of all fucking people, getting an extended shine, including kicking out of a flurry of big moves - why the fuck does that nobody get that spot? Given that this was just building to Dustin vs. Brodie, why not give that big moment to Dustin?

The match should have just been Dustin vs. Brodie anyway. There's no heat on generic Dark Order mooks, or even on Evil Uno, it's all about Brodie Lee and Cody, and Dustin fighting for his brother's honour would be a much simpler, better told story than using a few people who we're told are Cody's mates, but have never really given us any kayfabe reason to transfer our sympathy for Cody on to them. Then Matt Cardona is in there proving what we all knew, which is that he's a WWE midcarder who wrestles like a WWE midcarder - there was no sense of there being untapped potential, or a talent that had been held back there.

The absolute worst part of it all was, predictably, Brandi, though. She's so fucking useless that she's actually detrimental to the Cody storyline having any heat or believability to it. Brodie Lee has beaten her husband to a pulp, written him off TV, apparently no one's heard from him since, but her reaction isn't to be afraid of or intimidated by Brodie, or even violently angry at him, it's to stand on the stage in hot pants wagging her finger and cutting a sassy promo on him, then playing cheerleader from the sidelines. Just absolutely no sense of her being emotionally invested in the story at all. And then a crowbarred in spot with Anna Jay because God forbid Brandi not be permitted to get her shit in. Naturally, on AEW's Twitter account, it was Brandi's spot that got giffed and highlighted for this match.

Not that a woman in wrestling should solely be defined by their husband, but if they're telling a story that Cody is so beaten that no one has even heard from him, surely it would make sense to take Brandi off TV too? Suggest that she's having to look after him/nurse him back to health because he's so battered, or just that he needs her by his side at a difficult time. Because it makes them both look like pricks when they're doing "nobody has heard anything about Cody!" angle with her still on TV, as now it's not "no one knows what's going on with Cody", it's "his wife can't be bothered telling anyone".

 

Anyway, the good news is that Ben Carter is debuting on Dark tonight against Ricky Starks.

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2 hours ago, LaGoosh said:

The thing about AEW that I never expected but is a very welcome surprise is that when it start it was very much pushed as "wrestling not sports entertainment" but strangely I think they are really great and much better at angles, stories, promos, characters, gimmicks and sports entertainment stuff than the actual wrestling side of things which varies massively in quality from match to match. 

I hope they learn that hey maybe each match doesn't need 20 minutes and 5000 moves, the "sports entertainment" shit when done right will make you much more money and draw in the new fans and also less chance of the wrestlers dying.

I would have absolutely no problem if Dynamite was 50-50 matches and angles. From the hits they've had with their outside-the-ring work, I reckon it'd still be the best wrestling show on at the moment.

Despite what WWE have tried to drill into us with RAW in that "Every show's PPV quality!", I've realised I don't want that at all. I want that sense of build, of impatience, of looking forward to a show in a few weeks' time, so I absolutely HAVE to watch. That doesn't come from watching half a dozen multiman pile-ons or 25 minutes midcard bouts. Why would I want to watch 3 hours of wrestling when I've already watched 2 hours 3 days before?

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1 hour ago, BomberPat said:

Though as I say that, Foley also did so much completely unnecessary shit outside of the big famous matches, so he was as bad as anyone - the Hell In A Cell bump was one thing, but he was getting shot knees first into metal steps in nothing TV matches, or taking bumps on the floor in a five minute filler match.

There are some bumps that wrestlers think look more impressive than they do (because they actually hurt whilst not looking all that spectacular to someone who's never stepped in the ring). 

You raise a good point about how unnecessary the knees bump into the steps was, for example. I'm not sure how much more impressive that bump (which became routine after a while) was to joe public than being thrown back first onto the steps, but it certainly caused more long term damage.

If anyone's taking a bump just to "pop the boys in the back" then what's the point?

Edited by garynysmon
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I don't think the Attitude era is to blame for today's dangerous high spot style as the vast majority of matches back then were punch-kick and signature moves. Most the top wrestlers had about 4 moves each. Also if the Attitude era was so influential surely today's wrestlers would be more about over the top characters and promos?

I think the bigger influence is the early X division stuff and early ROH. Most the wrestlers now are in their early to late 20s and would have been kids or teenagers watching this stuff. The popularity of those matches and wrestlers had massive long term effects on the style of modern wrestling. Evident by the number of dives, head drops, Canadian Destroyers etc. 

Edited by LaGoosh
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9 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

I don't think the Attitude era is to blame for today's dangerous high spot style as the vast majority of matches back then were punch-kick and signature moves. Most the top wrestlers had about 4 moves each. Also if the Attitude era was so influential surely today's wrestlers would be more about over the top characters and promos?

I think the bigger influence is the early X division stuff and early ROH. Most the wrestlers now are in their early to late 20s and would have been kids or teenagers watching this stuff. The popularity of those matches and wrestlers had massive long term effects on the style of modern wrestling. Evident by the number of dives, head drops, Canadian Destroyers etc. 

It feels at times that the style is trying to be everything that the Attitude Era wasn't.

For all the AE's short matches, lots of talking, promo time and storyline development and appealing to as big an audience as possible, the industry has morphed into longer matches. a bigger emphasis on workrate and scripted promos and trying to wring out more cash out of the smaller but more obsessed fanbase that's left. 

Not really sure I envisaged that 20 years on, 2002 ROH would be having such a big impact on the industry, given that at the time I considered ROH to be wrestling with all the fun taken out of it.

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56 minutes ago, IANdrewDiceClay said:

State of pre-roids Brian Cage. That cant be good for you.maxresdefault.jpg

 

Jesus his balls must be shrivelled up like raisins. 

Surprised he hasn't has a massive cardiac yet. Does AEW have a wellness policy re steroids?

Edited by Michael_3165
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I think the difference is that today’s wrestler wants to be in the business because they are fans and their main motivation is having good matches. Whereas back in the 80s and some of the 90s, most of the guys got in the business to make money and saw it as a job. If they could have a great match then that was sometimes an additional motivator but money usually came first.

Now guys are turning down millions for the ‚Äúart‚ÄĚ.

Edited by Yakashi
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16 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

I don't think the Attitude era is to blame for today's dangerous high spot style as the vast majority of matches back then were punch-kick and signature moves. Most the top wrestlers had about 4 moves each. Also if the Attitude era was so influential surely today's wrestlers would be more about over the top characters and promos?

I think the bigger influence is the early X division stuff and early ROH. Most the wrestlers now are in their early to late 20s and would have been kids or teenagers watching this stuff. The popularity of those matches and wrestlers had massive long term effects on the style of modern wrestling. Evident by the number of dives, head drops, Canadian Destroyers etc. 

Yeah I'd definitely lean more towards the indies having a lasting influence, especially considering so many of these guys have come from there.

It was always the style to try and stick out from the crowd and the mainstream, despite knowing they were half killing themselves in front of tiny crowds.

Now over the last however many years that stuff has been sneaking in to the more popular products. You see guys like AJ Styles who have adapted, toned down the mental stuff, and (a) become better for it and (b) probably prolonged their careers for it. But others have no interest in adapting and still go balls to the wall with no real interest in slowing it down and making anything mean something.

I don't just blame the wrestlers though. NXT's booking means that's the expected style these days, and AEW's run by a bunch of people that have made their money doing that shit - especially the Bucks. Thankfully they've got Jericho who is almost the polar opposite and I have no doubt he's putting a word in here and there, but he's just one man. If Tony Khan is happy to send his guys out there to half kill themselves on a constant basis then what's anyone going to do.

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