Paid Members Egg Shen Posted August 19, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted August 19, 2019 no one takes a loss quite like DC do they Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted August 19, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted August 19, 2019 55 minutes ago, David said: Part of the problem early on was another eye poke for Stipe. You could see that it was bothering him for a round or so, he kept blinking and rubbing at it. I honestly thought "great, here we fucking go again" when I saw it. Cormier was basically walking towards him with his fingers outstretched constantly, and I think I heard one warning from Herb after a few rounds. Like you said, once Stipe put his shit together a bit the fight swung pretty drastically. I honestly believed that was how the first fight would have went, I was fairly sure that the height, reach, and striking ability of Stipe would have gotten the job done. Dont agree with that assessment. The first round of this fight proved that DC could and should have dominated the fight from a wrestling perspective, he just completely abandoned trying to do that after round 1 against his corners advice. Standing within range, hand fighting and trading with a heavyweight like Stipe was a huge mistake. It worked for him in the first fight though and DC clearly expected to stop Miocic on the feet again but the clearer path to victory would have been to utilise his far superior wrestling. The interview above confirms that. DC fought like an idiot. Did anyone else find it strange too that DC asked his corner after round 2 "am I losing?", it might have been a reaction to having a ticking off from his corner but it was quite a strange thing to say at that point in the fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 47 minutes ago, Egg Shen said: Dont agree with that assessment. The first round of this fight proved that DC could and should have dominated the fight from a wrestling perspective, he just completely abandoned trying to do that after round 1 against his corners advice. He successfully completed one of three takedown attempts, so it's not as if he just decided to stop trying for it. He tried for two in the first round and was successful with one, then again in the third round and was unsuccessful. Stipe's footwork and his ability to move in angles helped to negate a lot of the takedown threat. He's done that numerous times in fights before. His takedown defence percentage is something like 73%. Don't underestimate the energy it takes to get a man of Stipe's size to the mat either. Cormier didn't just bin the idea because he decided he'd rather trade blows. 53 minutes ago, Egg Shen said: Standing within range, hand fighting and trading with a heavyweight like Stipe was a huge mistake. What range would you recommend? Cormier was giving up almost eight inches in reach, and five inches in height. His only way to win was to stay within range and make it difficult for Miocic to utilise his jab and footwork. If DC had allowed that to happen he'd have been picked apart. He's not connecting unless he's within range. 56 minutes ago, Egg Shen said: It worked for him in the first fight though and DC clearly expected to stop Miocic on the feet again but the clearer path to victory would have been to utilise his far superior wrestling. The interview above confirms that. DC fought like an idiot. Again, easier said than done. Miocic is no chump when it comes to stopping the takedown and making anyone who attempts to take him down pay big time. Cormier isn't an idiot, if he had seen a relatively clear path to victory he'd have taken it. He's not the type to say "I can win this with my superior wrestling, but fuck it, I'll trade hands and see how it plays out." Miocic is a skilled boxer by MMA standards, and he's got some crazy power, but he's also an NCAA division one wrestler, so he's no Francis Ngannou or Black Beast when it comes to wrestling. He also scored a takedown in the third, and he threatened another two takedowns in that round as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted August 19, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted August 19, 2019 56 minutes ago, David said: Cormier isn't an idiot, if he had seen a relatively clear path to victory he'd have taken it. He's not the type to say "I can win this with my superior wrestling, but fuck it, I'll trade hands and see how it plays out." Â go and watch the post-fight interview, he basically confirms thats what he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 28 minutes ago, Egg Shen said: go and watch the post-fight interview, he basically confirms thats what he did. I saw him say that, and I think it's a more comfortable thing for him to say rather than admit that he couldn't get his game plan off. Easier to say you made a mistake rather than admit you simply couldn't get it done. He spent the build up to the fight talking about how Stipe simply wasn't as good as him, so whatever he has to tell himself to get over the loss is his call. If he wants to believe he could have won the fight if he just hadn't been an idiot then fair play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted August 19, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted August 19, 2019 (edited) Well completely ignoring his corners instructions also lends me to think that he believed his way was better on the night and it cost him. As for the 'in range' comments i made, i should have explained myself better. I understand DC needs to be in close due to the reach disparity, but seeing DC march into that range with the with little to no respect for what Miocic could throw at him was just alarming. There didnt appear to be any method to the madness, he just walked believing he would out-tough Stipe. Edited August 19, 2019 by Egg Shen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Egg Shen said: Well completely ignoring his corners instructions also lends me to think that he believed his way was better n the night and it cost him. He admitted himself that he tried to get another takedown later in the fight and couldn't, then he talked about needing to chain-wrestle instead. He was pretty gassed by that point, so he wasn't chain-wrestling anyone. And again, this wasn't Ngannou or Lewis, who are both there for the takedown and flounder on the floor. Miocic is an NCAA Division 1 wrestler. He's 6'4, he was the heavier man. Fuck, he got a takedown of his own in the fight! Something that only Jon Jones has ever done, apparently. Did DC get a takedown in the first and do well? Yes. Did he ever look like he was stopping Stipe on the floor during that round? No. Could he have consistently shot for and taken Stipe down and maintained that level of control over five rounds? Not a fucking chance. Stipe may not be an Olympic level wrestler, but he's going to make you work for those takedowns more often than not, has a more well-rounded game with more tools in his box and DC would have gassed eventually. He's a fat fucker, his cardio isn't the best. 14 minutes ago, Egg Shen said: As for the 'in range' comments i made, i should have explained myself better. I understand DC needs to be in close due to the reach disparity, but seeing DC march into that range with the with little to no respect for what Miocic could throw at him was just alarming. He marched in because his stand-up is generally basic at best. He's never been a "bobber & weaver" or a "stick and move" guy on the feet. His stand up looked the exact same when he faced Jones and he ended up getting clobbered with a head kick. There's levels to the game, especially at Heavyweight. DC looked good at that weight six or seven years ago against the likes of Barnett, Monson, Mir, Nelson and Bigfoot, but he was going in there with legit one of the best ever above 205lbs. I said it at the time, and I still say it now. That first fight ended as it did due to that fucking eye poke, which resulted in the stoppage. It almost happened again, but this time Stipe managed to weather the storm and regain his composure. Honestly, if these two dudes fought 10 times, I'd have Stipe winning seven or eight of them. Wrestling gameplan or not. The guy is the complete package at heavyweight. He's got the wrestling chops, decent boxing, heavy hands, decent cardio and he's an athletic big fucker. Save a freak KO shot or an eye poke there's no one else who really comes close. I'd even pick him over Jones at heavyweight right now. I think he'd stop him late in the 4th or 5th. Edited August 19, 2019 by David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted August 19, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted August 19, 2019 never heard that eye poke theory before. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted August 19, 2019 Author Paid Members Share Posted August 19, 2019 I can see both sides of this one. I definitely think there might’ve been a bit of overconfidence going in with Cormier thinking he could knock Miocic out again. But as much as I’m a huge DC fan, I do think what David says is true as well and that DC is trying to rationalise the loss to himself with the old ‘I didn’t follow the gameplan’ stuff. It’s an old AKA favourite that one, like when Cain didn’t follow the gameplan against JDS and Ngannou and got knocked out. Even though those fights ended so quick that gameplans wouldn’t really have had chance to even come into play. Now, DC almost certainly didn’t follow the gameplan. I think it’s obvious that the plan wouldn’t have been predominantly a standup fight. But I think the main reason he didn’t follow the gameplan was because he couldn’t. I think he probably realised when he had Stipe on the ground early on that it was going to take a lot of energy to take him down repeatedly and hold him there consistently over 5 rounds and probably thought he’d be selective with when to grapple after that. But his later takedown attempts weren’t successful and it became a standup match. He was still doing pretty well in the striking but he did start to look winded to me by round 3ish and I think Stipe picked up on that and that’s probably why he went to the body so hard. I’ve never doubted DC’s cardio before but I felt like he was flagging a bit by the middle rounds. Not massively but enough that it was noticeable. Maybe it’s part that he’s a bit of a chubber, part that he’s 40 years old. I also think Stipe constantly moving played its part. They went at a good pace for heavyweights. Stipe is the man. I’m not even the biggest fan of him. I don’t dislike him but I’m just neither here nor there on him personally. I’m much more of a Cormier fan. But I think Stipe fully deserves the credit for that win. To come back from being knocked out the first time, then having a 13 month lay-off, then having a pretty disastrous start to the rematch. To gut through that and find that finish was proper championship grit. He’s never really had to come back from a points deficit like that before. That showed a lot to me. Especially against someone of DC’s calibre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 13 hours ago, David said: He's 6'4, he was the heavier man. He wasn't the heavier man. DC weighed in at 236lbs and entered the cage at 247lbs. Miocic weighed in at 230 lbs and entered the cage at 233lbs.  13 hours ago, David said: There's levels to the game, especially at Heavyweight. DC looked good at that weight six or seven years ago against the likes of Barnett, Monson, Mir, Nelson and Bigfoot, but he was going in there with legit one of the best ever above 205lbs. It's nuanced. - DC's body is no longer in the same condition that it was during his Strikeforce years. As I have said before, the training methods at AKA, for which he spearheads, are incredibly taxing on the body. And he's just turned 40. Given this, it's a miracle that he's still competing at the top level. He's clearly still durable, but he perhaps can't fight and train like he used to. . - By contrast, DC was a relative novice in his Strikeforce days. He'd only been a pro for 2-3 years. He has much more experience and seasoning now. - And yes, Miocic is a better heavyweight than all of the fighters you listed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 8 minutes ago, jimufctna24 said: He wasn't the heavier man. DC weighed in at 236lbs and entered the cage at 247lbs. Miocic weighed in at 230 lbs and entered the cage at 233lbs. I'm going on the weigh-in results, I didn't hear anything about who weighed what on the night.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted August 19, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted August 19, 2019 1 hour ago, wandshogun09 said: I can see both sides of this one. I definitely think there might’ve been a bit of overconfidence going in with Cormier thinking he could knock Miocic out again. But as much as I’m a huge DC fan, I do think what David says is true as well and that DC is trying to rationalise the loss to himself with the old ‘I didn’t follow the gameplan’ stuff. It’s an old AKA favourite that one, like when Cain didn’t follow the gameplan against JDS and Ngannou and got knocked out. Even though those fights ended so quick that gameplans wouldn’t really have had chance to even come into play. Now, DC almost certainly didn’t follow the gameplan. I think it’s obvious that the plan wouldn’t have been predominantly a standup fight. But I think the main reason he didn’t follow the gameplan was because he couldn’t. I think he probably realised when he had Stipe on the ground early on that it was going to take a lot of energy to take him down repeatedly and hold him there consistently over 5 rounds and probably thought he’d be selective with when to grapple after that. But his later takedown attempts weren’t successful and it became a standup match. He was still doing pretty well in the striking but he did start to look winded to me by round 3ish Despite the strange approach, DC was still 3 up on the cards starting the 4th and it could be argued that if Miocic hadnt found success with those body shots in the that 4th round, DC probably would have hung on to win a decision. It just felt like DC believed he would knock Stipe out again. The collar ties and dirty boxing, the hand grabbing and punching over the top are all DC trademarks but thats all he was trying to do all while being fully prepared to eat what Miocic was throwing back at him, his corner were pleading with him not to stand in front if Miocic yet he did it non stop throughout the fight. He was still winning at the time of the stoppage but i cant help that he threw it away by being reckless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, Egg Shen said: It just felt like DC believed he would knock Stipe out again. The collar ties and dirty boxing, the hand grabbing and punching over the top are all DC trademarks but thats all he was trying to do all while being fully prepared to eat what Miocic was throwing back at him, his corner were pleading with him not to stand in front if Miocic yet he did it non stop throughout the fight. He was still winning at the time of the stoppage but i cant help that he threw it away by being reckless. DC had some success with his boxing in the first round, before he scored the takedown. It's possible that those early exchanges gave DC a bit too much confidence, hence why he opted to slug it out throughout rounds 2 and 3. I gave round 3 to Miocic. At best, it was a close round that DC won. Not sure why Anik described it as a clear round for DC. Edited August 19, 2019 by jimufctna24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted August 19, 2019 Author Paid Members Share Posted August 19, 2019 Yeah I think I had Stipe winning the 3rd as well. I definitely felt like there was a bit of a shift in that round where DC started looking a bit weathered and Stipe started to find some success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted August 19, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted August 19, 2019 (edited) just looked them up, the official cards read 29-28, 29-28, 30-27 going into the 4th. *edited Edited August 19, 2019 by Egg Shen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.