Shane O' Mac Version 2 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Insanity. The best thing for her to do would be moving up to 145. She wouldn't have to compromise her health, and she'd immediately be a contender considering UFC have like 3 women in the division. That weigh in video is a scary sight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
textonly Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 There's no doubt in my mind that was an early stoppage, but I don't have much sympathy. I feel like if you show up for a weigh-in looking like you're on the verge of death, you can't really blame a referee for being overcautious in his duty to keep a fighter safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Bus Surfer Posted July 14, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted July 14, 2019 I love how the crowd gave no fucks about a potential early stoppage in the Faber fight, but shit all over the potentially early stoppage in the main event.   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kfogg1991 Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 Surely allowing someone to fight even though they made weight but looks like that at the weigh in's should not have been allowed. Im all for the argument that she made weight and it was her choice but there has to be a line and a stage where someone steps in and says wait a minute fucking look at her face she is in visable pain here call it off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kfogg1991 Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 I've just watched the main and Co main event. Urijah looked very very impressive he turned up to make a statement and show that he can still go. For me that stoppage in the main was a utter joke, the first punch was hard yes but she turned over and went into defence, the second punch hit her shoulder. Very very bad call from herb. I think from the footage of how she looked in the weight in's the fight was always going to end like that no one can argue that but to loose in that mannor must be crushing for ladd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted July 14, 2019 Author Paid Members Share Posted July 14, 2019 It makes you wonder just how bad some fighters have looked in the past to be pulled from fights due to concerns about the weight cut. For example, the commission pulled Max Holloway out of one of his fights (can’t remember if it was the failed attempts against Edgar, Ortega or Khabib) because they’d seen something they didn’t like. Was he even worse than Ladd here? A lot of why they let her fight last night was probably because they felt the card was weak and couldn’t afford to lose its main event. Which is a shit reason but it’s probably why. And it’s going to bite them one day. At the end of the day, I’d rather a fight get cancelled and we have a shite card than someone actually die because they’ve gone in there weak or not fully hydrated or whatever. There’s a reason Boxing fucked off the same day weigh ins (and 15 round fights) in the 80s and, as far as I know, it was mostly because fighters were dying, usually after being stopped in the later rounds and going in there severely dehydrated. The Ray Mancini vs Duk Koo Kim fight in 1982 being probably the most well known example. Of course, this is different as UFC weigh ins are 24 hours before, but it seems like fight promoters, athletic commissions or what have you, have forgotten how badly wrong it can go when you let someone fight in that kind of condition. If this was a stacked PPV and this fight was on the prelims, they’d have probably called it off. I think it was mostly because they didn’t want to pull their headliner that it even went ahead. With all that said, thank fuck De Randamie ended it quickly. Like textonly, I don’t blame the ref one bit for erring on the side of caution. If this had gone deep into the 4th and 5th rounds, Ladd could’ve really taken some serious damage. Not saying she’d have died or anything but it could’ve been the kind of punishment that you don’t ever bounce back from in your career. It was probably a blessing in disguise. Hopefully the UFC push for Ladd to move up to 145 now. I know technically she made weight but what are we actually doing here? And it’s not a one-off. This is at least twice now in the last year that she’s looked in a really bad way weighing in. Faber’s comeback surprised me. I really thought Simon might be too much for him after such a long time out. Still think this comeback isn’t going to go too well though. There was a reason he walked away in 2016. Even the initial exchanges here, I thought Simon wobbled him with a left hook and hurt him with that hard leg kick. Faber tagged him and closed the show but it still didn’t fill me with confidence going forward. Certainly not against Henry Cejudo. I get why he dropped his name in the post-fight interview but that’s going to end badly for old Arse Chin. Oh and Ryan Hall continues to confuse everyone with his wacky but very effective style. What do you do against that? If you get too close he’s ripping your legs off but if you stand at range you’re getting hit with spinning shit all night. He’s managed to develop a style based almost purely on what are usually low success rate techniques, yet he hits them consistently. Elkins had a look of befuddlement on his face the whole fight. The crowd can boo, and to an extent I get it because Hall’s style is so unconventional and unlike what we’re used to, but that’s martial arts. You take what works for you and this is working for Hall. It’d be proper boring if everyone had the same style. Hall is nothing like anyone else in the game. He’s basically a real life version of this mad cunt off Bloodsport... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kfogg1991 Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said: It makes you wonder just how bad some fighters have looked in the past to be pulled from fights due to concerns about the weight cut. For example, the commission pulled Max Holloway out of one of his fights (can’t remember if it was the failed attempts against Edgar, Ortega or Khabib) because they’d seen something they didn’t like. Was he even worse than Ladd here? A lot of why they let her fight last night was probably because they felt the card was weak and couldn’t afford to lose its main event. Which is a shit reason but it’s probably why. And it’s going to bite them one day. At the end of the day, I’d rather a fight get cancelled and we have a shite card than someone actually die because they’ve gone in there weak or not fully hydrated or whatever. There’s a reason Boxing fucked off the same day weigh ins (and 15 round fights) in the 80s and, as far as I know, it was mostly because fighters were dying, usually after being stopped in the later rounds and going in there severely dehydrated. The Ray Mancini vs Duk Koo Kim fight in 1982 being probably the most well known example. Of course, this is different as UFC weigh ins are 24 hours before, but it seems like fight promoters, athletic commissions or what have you, have forgotten how badly wrong it can go when you let someone fight in that kind of condition. If this was a stacked PPV and this fight was on the prelims, they’d have probably called it off. I think it was mostly because they didn’t want to pull their headliner that it even went ahead. With all that said, thank fuck De Randamie ended it quickly. Like textonly, I don’t blame the ref one bit for erring on the side of caution. If this had gone deep into the 4th and 5th rounds, Ladd could’ve really taken some serious damage. Not saying she’d have died or anything but it could’ve been the kind of punishment that you don’t ever bounce back from in your career. It was probably a blessing in disguise. Hopefully the UFC push for Ladd to move up to 145 now. I know technically she made weight but what are we actually doing here? And it’s not a one-off. This is at least twice now in the last year that she’s looked in a really bad way weighing in. Faber’s comeback surprised me. I really thought Simon might be too much for him after such a long time out. Still think this comeback isn’t going to go too well though. There was a reason he walked away in 2016. Even the initial exchanges here, I thought Simon wobbled him with a left hook and hurt him with that hard leg kick. Faber tagged him and closed the show but it still didn’t fill me with confidence going forward. Certainly not against Henry Cejudo. I get why he dropped his name in the post-fight interview but that’s going to end badly for old Arse Chin. Oh and Ryan Hall continues to confuse everyone with his wacky but very effective style. What do you do against that? If you get too close he’s ripping your legs off but if you stand at range you’re getting hit with spinning shit all night. He’s managed to develop a style based almost purely on what are usually low success rate techniques, yet he hits them consistently. Elkins had a look of befuddlement on his face the whole fight. The crowd can boo, and to an extent I get it because Hall’s style is so unconventional and unlike what we’re used to, but that’s martial arts. You take what works for you and this is working for Hall. It’d be proper boring if everyone had the same style. Hall is nothing like anyone else in the game. He’s basically a real life version of this mad cunt off Bloodsport... Absolutely agree with your points here I think the fact the card was a massive drop in comparison to last week's ppv has definitely impacted on why she wasn't pulled from it. And I think this is something that needs to be addressed as a major problem within the ufc and mma in general. When your putting out cards at the mass they are they are really backing yourself into a corner in terms of quality and interest. I think putting on 3/4 cards a month is just saturising the industry and also burning your fan base out completely. Im all for and love the idea of a main numbered card and a fight night card a month but more than that your walking into territory of fans loosing interest and excitement and I know it's effecting the live/ppv market entirely. People are now watching cards a couple of days/weeks after on demand or online (wherever they choose to watch streaming/torrenting/downloading) and that means the fighters aren't getting those ppv bonuses because fans refuse to keep paying more and more to watch and support Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Silky Kisser said: I love how the crowd gave no fucks about a potential early stoppage in the Faber fight, but shit all over the potentially early stoppage in the main event. Don't think either stoppage was even remotely comparable to be honest. 1 hour ago, wandshogun09 said: With all that said, thank fuck De Randamie ended it quickly. Like textonly, I don’t blame the ref one bit for erring on the side of caution. If this had gone deep into the 4th and 5th rounds, Ladd could’ve really taken some serious damage. Not saying she’d have died or anything but it could’ve been the kind of punishment that you don’t ever bounce back from in your career. It was probably a blessing in disguise. Hopefully the UFC push for Ladd to move up to 145 now. I know technically she made weight but what are we actually doing here? And it’s not a one-off. This is at least twice now in the last year that she’s looked in a really bad way weighing in. Fucking hell Wand, that's a shitload of guesswork on your part. I've seen others say the same, and it's ridiculous. You can't justify a fucking terrible stoppage on her finding it tough to make weight. The bottom line is that she made weight, and she'll have been checked over by commission doctors and so on. We've seen instances in the past where fighters have been pulled during the weight cut for health reasons, so if she was that bad I'm fairly certain the medical team would have stepped in. But yeah, we're assuming that the fight would have developed into De Randamie dishing out a beating and Ladd being in danger of dying. Think we need to dial it the fuck back a little. The stoppage was ridiculous, and that's on Herb and Herb alone. Fuck all to do with weigh-ins, it was a terrible call, and one that he should rightfully be pulled up on. It's not even like one of those stoppages where the fighter was rocked and looked out for a second or whatever, it was just plain rubbish. A punch to the head drops her, she then gets on all fours and is visibly waiting to see what De Randamie would do next (probably hoping she'd try and take it to the ground) then after a punch to the fucking shoulder the fight gets called. Absolutely laughable. 2 hours ago, Kfogg1991 said: Surely allowing someone to fight even though they made weight but looks like that at the weigh in's should not have been allowed. Im all for the argument that she made weight and it was her choice but there has to be a line and a stage where someone steps in and says wait a minute fucking look at her face she is in visable pain here call it off Do you know who should be making that call? The medical team employed by the commission who monitor each fighter during the period of time pre-weigh in. We've seen fighters yanked before by the doctors, and I'd like to think that the doctors will know a bit more than us about how safe she was. We saw her for a few minutes on a scale and have made the medical diagnosis of "hold up, look at her face! Pull her from the card!" If she should have been pulled, she would have been pulled. It's that simple. Edited July 14, 2019 by David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted July 14, 2019 Author Paid Members Share Posted July 14, 2019 Never said she would’ve died but whatever. Anyone who watched that Aspen Ladd weigh in thought it was very worrying. And it’s twice now that she’s looked really bad weighing in. This wasn’t Conor McGregor looking gaunt but still energetic and screaming like a madman on the scales. Ladd looked fucking terrible, could barely walk, constantly shaking, grimacing in pain etc. Twice she’s been like that. My point is that if they ignore things like this, sooner or later it’s going to end badly. Didn’t have to be this fight specifically. Whether that played a part in Herb jumping in quick or if he just fucked up, we’ll probably never know. But I don’t think it’s crazy to be concerned when a someone is allowed to fight 24 hours after looking the way she did on Friday. It’s not a question of ‘if’ something bad happens, but ‘when’ for me. I hope I’m wrong obviously but it’s amazing it hasn’t happened in the UFC already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 20 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said: Anyone who watched that Aspen Ladd weigh in thought it was very worrying. Yeah, but the untrained eyes of the likes of you and me don't matter. It's the medical professionals who are deployed by the commission who make these decisions, and we've seen them pull fighters during the weight cutting process before. I have absolutely no doubt that if Ladd was in serious medical danger she'd have been pulled. 21 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said: My point is that if they ignore things like this, sooner or later it’s going to end badly. What makes you think they're ignoring anything? What do you think the doctors are doing during the weigh-ins? She's being monitored like all the other fighters. If there's a problem, they'd have zero issue pulling her. We've seen it happen before, and it'll probably happen again in the future. 23 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said: Whether that played a part in Herb jumping in quick or if he just fucked up, we’ll probably never know. But I don’t think it’s crazy to be concerned when a someone is allowed to fight 24 hours after looking the way she did on Friday. Well, that would insinuate that Herb is also second guessing the medical professionals. I'm assuming he's not a doctor, so if he has taken how she looked at the weigh-ins and allowed that to play a part he's been incredibly unprofessional. It's his job to officiate the fight, and Ladd looked fine coming in, she wasn't rocked or hurt after that shot. It dropped her, but she didn't look to be in any trouble at all. I personally don't think Herb has taken the weigh-ins into account, I think he just dropped a bollock in this fight and fucked up big time. One of the worst calls I've seen in a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamura Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 4 hours ago, David said: Yeah, but the untrained eyes of the likes of you and me don't matter. It's the medical professionals who are deployed by the commission who make these decisions You can't have it both ways. On one hand you're arguing that the doctors know best and they are professionals deployed by the commission. However you can easily substitute "referee" for "medical professionals" in that sentence, but when it comes to the stoppage you're saying your untrained eyes know better than Herb Dean, despite him also being a professional deployed by the commission. Not that I'm disagreeing with your assessment that the stoppage looked early of course... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 15 hours ago, Tamura said: You can't have it both ways. On one hand you're arguing that the doctors know best and they are professionals deployed by the commission. However you can easily substitute "referee" for "medical professionals" in that sentence, but when it comes to the stoppage you're saying your untrained eyes know better than Herb Dean, despite him also being a professional deployed by the commission. Not that I'm disagreeing with your assessment that the stoppage looked early of course... I get your point, but there's a bit of a difference in watching a fight and seeing if someone is in real danger, it's a tad easier for the layman to take a somewhat educated guess at those matters, and being privy to the methods used by medical professionals to keep tabs on a fighters well-being. We've seen fighters being pulled from weigh-ins before, so it's not as if the doctors are under pressure to allow fighters to compete. My main point is that the doctors will be using more than their eyes to track a fighters health during the process.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamura Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 3 hours ago, David said: I get your point, but there's a bit of a difference in watching a fight and seeing if someone is in real danger, it's a tad easier for the layman to take a somewhat educated guess at those matters, and being privy to the methods used by medical professionals to keep tabs on a fighters well-being. We've seen fighters being pulled from weigh-ins before, so it's not as if the doctors are under pressure to allow fighters to compete. My main point is that the doctors will be using more than their eyes to track a fighters health during the process.  No objection to that, just to the idea that doctors must be right because they are professionals appointed by the commission, when referees are as well. Herb Dean's decision making would be easier to understand if he was at least consistent, so fighters have some benchmark of what he considers "intelligently defending yourself". It's difficult to understand why Aspen Ladd was stopped yet this abomination was allowed to continue.   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted July 15, 2019 Author Paid Members Share Posted July 15, 2019 Herb’s generally a good referee and I thought he came across really sound on Rogan’s podcast a few months ago but I’ve long felt he’s a bit overrated as a ref. There was a time when the commentators, Rogan especially, would always push the idea that Herb was the ‘best ref in the business’ but for me he was never as good or consistent as Big John McCarthy. I’d rate Marc Goddard as the best in the game these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 The CSAC's procedures have come under scrutiny in the past. They have been accused of all sorts of malpractice, incompetence and corruption. And let's not forget that Chuck Liddell of all people fought in California last year. I am not saying that Ladd should not have been allowed to fight on Saturday evening. But I wouldn't automatically assume that the CSAC and their doctors made the correct call.   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.