All Tories Are Cunts thread

[unfitfinlay]

It's just plastic patriotism. It's easier to bang on about flags and statues than it is to do anything to improve the country in any way, shape or form. Bit like how it is easier to CLAP for the NHS, and talk about how you appreciate it than give staff a decent pay rise and/or effective PPE.

Plus if people are mocking them for flag shagging then they aren't questioning any of the truly awful shit they do. Like Priti Patel's new rules effectively banning Asylum Seekers or Alistair Jack threatening to take the Scottish Government to court over a bill that protects the rights of children in Scotland.

[David]

9 hours ago, unfitfinlay said:

It's just plastic patriotism. It's easier to bang on about flags and statues than it is to do anything to improve the country in any way, shape or form.

Switch statues with independence and it sounds a lot like the SNP in Scotland to be honest. Their record in power is abysmal, but that doesn't matter because ~INDEPENDENCE!!!~

[stumobir]

52 minutes ago, David said:

Switch statues with independence and it sounds a lot like the SNP in Scotland to be honest. Their record in power is abysmal, but that doesn't matter because ~INDEPENDENCE!!!~

Please provide a solitary piece of evidence that supports your claim that the independence movement has ever been about flags and patriotism. 
 

I’m guessing you’re still a “firm no” that’s “open to changing their mind”, just so you’re not tied to any one position because god forbid you should lose an argument. 
 

ETA: not accepting opinion pieces like you provided in the Death of the Union thread, hoping for better from you. 

Edited March 26, 2021 by stumobir

[RedRooster]

24 minutes ago, David said:

Switch statues with independence and it sounds a lot like the SNP in Scotland to be honest. Their record in power is abysmal, but that doesn't matter because ~INDEPENDENCE!!!~

When it comes to the key figures at Holyrood, I honestly don't think this is true. You hear more about independence from the Tories and Labour in Scotland than you do from Nicola Sturgeon. She almost seems hesitant to mention it, and simply throws it out to give the members of her party who are anxious to have a second independence referendum ASAP a bone. 

I also disagree their record in power is "abysmal" - but I think it's fair to say mixed. There are definite successes you could point to (eg. free prescriptions, the NHS here - while not perfect - is certainly better off than in England; free sanitary products, LGBT+ rights) but there are also failings (eg. the curriculum for excellence and drug deaths).

All in all, as I've made clear on other threads, I'm very hesitant about the idea of independence - Brexit has been a disaster, and I think we should learn lessons from that. If Scottish Labour sorted their shit out, I wouldn't rule out voting for them in a Holyrood election. As it stands though, I think the SNP are the best option north of the border, and that the positives are notable enough to leave me feeling reasonably optimistic that the negatives will be addressed. 

And obviously there's no chance at all of me voting for the hypocritical, opportunistic liars that exist in the Scottish Tory party.

[Carbomb]

Genuine question here, @David, but weren't you pro-i dependence at one point? I could've sworn I remembered discussing this with you years ago on here; I remember saying something about how the Scots and Welsh were probably the only ones holding the King Cunt Tide back, and you made the point that, statistically, that's never actually been the case, that Scots were tired of their votes not counting for anything and always ending up with governments they didn't vote for.

[David]

20 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

Genuine question here, @David, but weren't you pro-i dependence at one point? I could've sworn I remembered discussing this with you years ago on here; I remember saying something about how the Scots and Welsh were probably the only ones holding the King Cunt Tide back, and you made the point that, statistically, that's never actually been the case, that Scots were tired of their votes not counting for anything and always ending up with governments they didn't vote for.

I was pro independence before the last referendum. I studied the whitepaper that was provided at the time and it looked like a real possibility. The difference between then and now for me is that much of the projections back then were based on the price of a barrel of Brent crude oil being around $110.

Today it's less than half of that. 

Back then we didn't face the financial issues of a pandemic either, which is something we're going to have to face up to before long. 

So, both of those factors are what drive me to, if anything, a "not quite yet" rather than a "nope, never." I'm certainly open to revisiting the situation down the line when the financial numbers make more sense, but that's not the case for me right now.

Independence would result in financial catastrophe as things stand in my opinion, and I daresay that Sturgeon wouldn't be the one left to clean up the mess. If she secured an independence referendum and winning vote she'd step down as a Scottish hero, riding off into the sunset to secure her lucrative speaking tours and book deals.

It would be whichever chump came along after her that would have to deal with the fallout. 

1 hour ago, RedRooster said:

I also disagree their record in power is "abysmal" - but I think it's fair to say mixed. There are definite successes you could point to (eg. free prescriptions, the NHS here - while not perfect - is certainly better off than in England; free sanitary products, LGBT+ rights) but there are also failings (eg. the curriculum for excellence and drug deaths).

And this is the point I was mostly getting at. The SNP have become masters of swatting away concerns over their track record in power by using the one-size fits all retort of "well, do you want to get away from Boris and the evil Tories?!?"

I know people who think the SNP are terrible, but who hold their nose and vote for them because they're more concerned with an independence vote than the state of the country right now.

The SNP have become complacent and lazy, because they know they don't have to actually go out and win anyone's vote. If you dare vote any of the other parties you're simply unpatriotic and a Tory who supports the union.

[RedRooster]

13 minutes ago, David said:

Independence would result in financial catastrophe as things stand in my opinion, and I daresay that Sturgeon wouldn't be the one left to clean up the mess. If she secured an independence referendum and winning vote she'd step down as a Scottish hero, riding off into the sunset to secure her lucrative speaking tours and book deals.

It would be whichever chump came along after her that would have to deal with the fallout. 

My main worry about the SNP is what comes after Sturgeon. Politically and morally, for the most part, I think we're on relatively solid ground with her. 

But the party has an extreme underbelly who believe in things that I simply can not get on board with - Salmond cultists and obsessive anti-trans activists, for example. If that section of the party launches a successful coup - which isn't impossible - I just couldn't vote SNP. 

[David]

6 minutes ago, RedRooster said:

My main worry about the SNP is what comes after Sturgeon. Politically and morally, for the most part, I think we're on relatively solid ground with her. 

I did think that, but the recent situation and evidence against her in the Salmond debacle has opened my eyes a little, and it's also highlighted why you should never have a married couple holding both the head of party & CEO roles.

8 minutes ago, RedRooster said:

But the party has an extreme underbelly who believe in things that I simply can not get on board with - Salmond cultists and obsessive anti-trans activists, for example. If that section of the party launches a successful coup - which isn't impossible - I just couldn't vote SNP. 

What I find to be true about the SNP is that it exists primarily as a vehicle for independence. Its supporters are a varied bunch, with some skewed views on certain matters, but who all share the quest for independence.

I'd be very interested in knowing how many SNP members, including politicians, are in the party because of the ethos of the party and their views on non-independence matters.

[Keith Houchen]

Shit is blatant since the tories appointed one of their big donors at the top table of the BBC.

The Mirrors front page. 

 

[Factotum]

To be fair, they did have someone discussing the whole situation in the review. They just didn't show the front page on the front page round up.

Doesn't take away from the fact that the PM can do whatever the fuck he likes and it barely makes any noise.

[stumobir]

24 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

Shit is blatant since the tories appointed one of their big donors at the top table of the BBC.

The Mirrors front page. 

 

Yeah, it’s bordering satirical. I’m absolutely convinced Laura Kuenssberg is on Government payroll, she is client journalism personified. At pains recently, to pass Johnson’s “greed and capitalism” comment off as just a joke, she isn’t his spokesperson it’s her job to hold him to account over his comments not explain them away. 

[Factotum]

2 hours ago, stumobir said:

Yeah, it’s bordering satirical. I’m absolutely convinced Laura Kuenssberg is on Government payroll, she is client journalism personified. At pains recently, to pass Johnson’s “greed and capitalism” comment off as just a joke, she isn’t his spokesperson it’s her job to hold him to account over his comments not explain them away. 

I must say I get rather uncomfortable with comments such as this.  I really think we need to stop with the attacks on journalists like Kuenssberg. The BBC are attacked by the right as they are seen as 'lefty' and now the left seems to be convinced there's a grand conspiracy against them on the BBC.  It just doesn't sit right with me. 

Also I'm not having a pop, just my own personal feelings on it.

[Keith Houchen]

1 minute ago, Factotum said:

I really think we need to stop with the attacks on journalists like Kuenssberg

I don’t think we should. She isn’t a journalist in the proper sense, nor is Peston. They are parrots repeating what they’re told without doing any journalistic research into if it’s true or not. 

[Carbomb]

3 minutes ago, Factotum said:

I must say I get rather uncomfortable with comments such as this.  I really think we need to stop with the attacks on journalists like Kuenssberg. The BBC are attacked by the right as they are seen as 'lefty' and now the left seems to be convinced there's a grand conspiracy against them on the BBC.  It just doesn't sit right with me. 

Also I'm not having a pop, just my own personal feelings on it.

Even without the left/right argument, it's still valid to question Kuenssberg's integrity. Paxman's a Tory, and he was never afraid to savage anyone if he thought they needed holding to account.

The current government is getting away with so much shit, they need scrutiny and accountability more than ever, and no-one's providing it. 

The right are attacking the BBC and Kuenssberg because they're petulant children who are now used to getting everything their own way, and don't like any challenge at all - same in the US, just look at Ben Shapiro whining at arch-communist Andrew Neill.

The left are understandably angry because they've just seen what appears to be a well-orchestrated media campaign of smearing anyone left-wing who pops their head above the parapet. The Opposition get more scrutiny than this government do.

This just isn't a "both sides" thing.

[SuperBacon]

The thing with Kuenssberg and Peston is it's just so predictable now so what is the point in getting annoyed at anything they do? We should just ignore them.

They're both absolute fucking shills who are genuinely lower than say Daily Star (sorry ooh ahh Daily Star) politics journalists, in what they come out with.

Getting angry at them is completely pointless.  It's irritating that they are the leading journalists for the two biggest TV channels but who is forming an opinion off what they say? Fuck them and their performative bullshit.

I do still wonder how on earth Peston got a career in TV though. Hes just such a charisma vacuum. Who on earth enjoys watching him?