Paid Members Tommy! Posted May 12, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted May 12, 2019 28 minutes ago, Michael_3165 said: From my experience when something happens like this 90% of people will just stand there looking stunned I'm no expert and not a ref (or indeed anything to do with wrestling) but isn't part of his job to keep an eye out for both guys and communicate when someone or something is in trouble? Not that he should jump into CPR but at least check on him when clearly there's an issue rather than watch someone try and roll him over for the cover, then hold up the 3. As such surely there is more expectation to be in that 10% than your average joe. That's not having a go at him, he's in an incredibly tough and unpleasant situation, it's just your argument seems a tad flawed. 47 minutes ago, Devon Malcolm said: To the people that chose to watch this video - why, exactly? There was an insinuation online about conduct of the others involved. I wanted to be able to get a genuine appraisal of events.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted May 12, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted May 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Great Bear Promotions said: Not at all, public liability insurance is just there to cover the costs if a member of the public gets hurt. Venues ask for it to cover the public coming into a building. Not the people that will be working there. Whenever I applied/renewed mine there was no question about having first aid provision etc. Thanks - that kind of surprises me. 1 hour ago, Devon Malcolm said: To the people that chose to watch this video - why, exactly? I was avoiding it until the story about the lack of first aid, so I wanted to see if it was true.  1 hour ago, Michael_3165 said: For those moaning about the referee I can only hope that you never have to deal with a dead person. From my experience when something happens like this 90% of people will just stand there looking stunned, hoping someone else will intervene. We must remember that most people never expect to have to resuscitate someone especially when 99.9% of days you will never have a single time when someone will keel over and die in front of you. While I agree,it appears there was a lack of first aid present, which is astonishing for a high-level show with talent flown in at a prestigious venue. Particularly with a type of event where accidents can and do happen. I think it'd be a good idea for all referees to have first-aid training. Also, obviously, every show should have someone trained there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshC Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Can this be the end of 'wrestling is an art form' bollocks? It's a sport - a simulated sport, but nevertheless. It should be treated as such. Though comics have died on stage too in that age range i guess, right?  Proper sad news. I used to really enjoy Silver King in WCW. He was a top adversary for the flashy babyfaces, did his job to a tee. There's a ton of fun tags from Saturday Night and Thunder that haven't seen the light of day on the Network yet, would be cool if they unearthed a few of these. RIP Silver King and cheers amigo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members gmoney Posted May 12, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted May 12, 2019 A colleague of mine was at this show. He has no interest in wrestling, the only reason he went was because his mate was visiting him from his home country and they looked at what was going on in London and thought it would be a bit of a laugh. What a night to pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted May 13, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted May 13, 2019 Yeah, I feel horrible for anyone in attendance - the Lucha Libre World shows tend to attract a largely "non wrestling fan" audience, because of the way they sell Lucha as more of an art form and cultural event than a straight wrestling show, and somehow it feels worse to have happened in front of that kind of casual audience. I'm hoping there weren't as many kids there in the evening as there were for the matinee. I knew a few people working the show, crew and wrestlers, and selfishly I'm just glad that none of those guys were in the ring when it happened - I'd hate for any of them to have to live with this. Those I have spoken to were absolutely cut up, and it was horrible being across town at a different show as news was coming through bit by bit via text from people working the show. The matinee show was over an hour late opening doors, intermission over-ran, and only ended up having four matches, with Silver King only doing a promo. I'm hoping it was typical Lucha Libre lack of organisation, but can't shake the thought that maybe he was unwell/something was up before the first show, and either they or he insisted on working the evening show regardless. I really hope I'm wrong about that. I haven't watched the video (and won't), and I'm not going to suggest that I know refereeing and wrestling protocol better than fucking Black Terry, but obviously there are questions around how one should be prepared for this sort of thing. Referees absolutely should be first aid trained, and the majority of reputable ones are, as spotting injuries etc are the most important part of the job - but a lot of promoters will skimp on that and book trainees to ref instead, because not everyone fully appreciates the benefits of having a good referee on the show and think you can throw a striped shirt on anyone, because all they have to do is count. I'm actually scheduling some time to refresh my own first aid training off the back of this, because it's been a few years. After Perro Aguayo Jr died, I had nightmares about this kind of thing happening for days.  Quote Interestingly this has happened twice involving Lucha talent in recent years. I remember that match with Mysterio where one guy died and now this. Interesting to see why there have been two in a few years but none in the other big leagues like WWE. ?wellbeing needs addressing for these guys? In Silver King's case, I'd say that it's a weird contradiction of the lucha style - Lucha isn't as heavy on bumps as American wrestling is; you're more likely to take a backward roll than an actual hard back bump. Because of that, there's less overt wear and tear on the body, so it's not unusual to see luchadores wrestling well into their 50s, 60s, or even 70s, and keeping up a reasonably busy schedule late into life. I'd speculate that there could be an issue that, while the style amounts to less in the way of broken bones or muscular injury, that it allows luchadores wrestling into middle or old age (though Silver King was "only" 51, and Perro only 35) would heighten the risk of a heart attack. Throw in the risks of all independent wrestling meaning there isn't the health monitoring you'll get in WWE, and it adds up. More likely, though, it's just two unfortunate freak accidents that happen to have involved lucha talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 I would imagine that the monitoring of steroids/pain killers is probably non-existant in Lucha. Â Generally if a wrestler of this age dies of a heart attack, that's the first thing I think of - the wear and tear on the heart ala Eddie Guerrero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pier Six Brawler Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 This is the first UK in-ring wrestling death since Mal "King Kong" Kirk, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted May 13, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted May 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, Pier Six Brawler said: This is the first UK in-ring wrestling death since Mal "King Kong" Kirk, correct? 99% sure that's right, yeah. It'll be interesting if anything comes of this - if any venues/sponsors/TV people get cold feet on working with wrestling because they don't want to take the risk, for example. I'll be surprised if Lucha Libre World run another show after this. Apparently Camden Council have started an investigation from today, which will chiefly look at whether more could have been done. I doubt anything will come of it, but if political will were there, it could see an increased need for medical professionals to be on hand, or at least on call, before wrestling events are allowed to go ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TildeGuy~! Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted May 13, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted May 13, 2019 "Top Hollywood wrestler". Indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfoote Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Just now, Carbomb said: "Top Hollywood wrestler". Indeed. Nacho Libre I guess would be considered a Hollywood Box Office hit, surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted May 13, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted May 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, bigfoote said: Nacho Libre I guess would be considered a Hollywood Box Office hit, surely? Yeah, I guess. But it's still a bit of a stretch, I think. Obviously, in the grand scheme of things, this is just minutiae. I just hope there haven't been too many people affected badly by this. Going by various accounts, there do need to be some serious questions asked about the provision of first aid on these shows, especially as the LLW were originally enabled via Arts Council funding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Tommy! Posted May 13, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted May 13, 2019 51 minutes ago, Carbomb said:  Yeah, I guess. But it's still a bit of a stretch, I think. I know right, we've come to expect better of the daily star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Ayass Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 7 hours ago, Pier Six Brawler said: This is the first UK in-ring wrestling death since Mal "King Kong" Kirk, correct? Kirk died in 1987. Kevin Cawley died in the ring at an All Star show in Catford in 1992:Â http://whatculture.com/wwe/13-wrestlers-died-ring?page=3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted May 13, 2019 Paid Members Share Posted May 13, 2019 Somebody please call Jake Wood so I can make sense of all this?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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