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Danny Baker is trending. He isnt a rapist. He isnt dead. He's ....


IANdrewDiceClay

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Just now, Ronnie said:

It still doesn't explain to me why otherwise well-meaning people would think that a child of this couple

Image result for prince harry

is Black.

It's entirely possible, unfortunately, that the awful thought process you described survives vestigially among the thicker elements of society but it's not a million miles away from the reaction of many of the Twitter mob who also seem to have defaulted to that position whilst accusing somebody else of racism, when all he's really guilty of is not being racist enough to view the child as Black so that his 'Oh, this could be racist' alarm didn't tingle before posting his stupid tweet.

I understand that, but as I mentioned to David, people are working off historical precedent here - regardless of how much of Kid Windsor is white, the fact is mixed people have to deal with racism for their black heritage, and his mum has had execrable racists post disgusting stuff about her online, and she's mixed herself. 

Additionally, given the febrile and xenophobic atmosphere in this country at the moment, I can understand why there would be a lot of sensitivity on racial issues, not to mention that there are a lot of people in this country who like the monarchy and will get defensive about any shit thrown at it anyway.

The "one drop" rule cuts both ways quite often too - many BME communities consider mixed kids to be "their own" because of their shared experiences, and because "if white people won't have them, we will".

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14 minutes ago, David said:

 

Here's the thing mate, the kid isn't black. If this was a newborn that a black couple had do you think Baker would have posted that? Of course not.

 

Well, according to him he would have, as he posted it without realisng its possible race connotations.  You can't eat your cake AND have it.

I also think the "if you see racism, that makes you racist" is a weak argument.  It's great that so many people didn't see the racial connotation of the post, that shows we've come a long way, but it's well within my lifetime that people used to make "ooh ooh" noises and throw bananas at black football players so let's not pretend this is some historic thing.  Centuries of racism doesn't get overturned in a couple of decades like that, it takes continuing sensitivity and thoughtfulness.

And it's not like Megan Markle's race hasn't been talked about by the media, whether you like it or not it IS a big step forward that a member of the royal family is in a mixed race marriage, and I say that as someone also in a mixed race marriage.  It's positive reinforcement. Danny should have known better, he should have apologise properly, and he probably still doesn't deserve to lose his job.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Chest Rockwell said:

Man, you have been really aggressively black and white* in your stance on race stuff recently. It's not as simple as you make it out to be. For example - I got annoyed at you, and at the idea of a white guy telling me what is and isn't racist, (especially when it comes to the word paki) and then I immediately felt like I was a racist for thinking that.

 

*it's not a pun ffs, that really is just the most succinct way of phrasing that.

I completely get where you’re coming from though, and as I explained in the other post , I have two sisters who have an Indian dad and as such, have seen them and my family subjected to that word more than I can care to remember. So, for me, there is even more of a vested interest in that word not being used.

This is a discussion forum. I would rather have a discussion and I see way too much shit on here slide and not get called, so I will call it out and have a discussion about it rather than ignore it. I’d hope someone would do the same to me.

You’re right, it’s not clear cut, but my OPINION is that he would have to be incredibly thick, ignorant or very, very naive to not think that that connection would be made. I just can’t see how it wouldn’t. That’s all 

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12 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

As I explained a few posts ago, that is irrelevant. In the eyes of racists, mixed kids are the same as black kids, and have endured the same treatment, if not worse on occasion. That a person has any white heritage doesn't stop racists from exhibiting racist behaviour towards them. Trust me on that.

I hate to sound harsh, but where does it end? From what I gather one parent on the mothers side is black, correct? I've seen the photos of the kid like most of the nation, and in all honesty I wouldn't know it was mixed race unless I did some research on the mothers parents.

The only people who will be referring to this kids race are the extreme end of the racist mob, and that's saying something. The usual mouth breathers wouldn't have a clue, it would be way above their heads, leaving the proper headcase Aryan bloodline types as those who care.

Again, where does it end? I saw the H&M ad with the kid in the monkey sweater mentioned. What if they had went with a kid for that ad who looked white, but who had a black great grandfather? Is that racism in the same way as those who cracked up about the situation originally saw it?

12 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

He could've simply said "I made a stupid mistake posting that picture; it was completely insensitive, ignorant, tone-deaf, and there is no defence for it at all. I apologise to everyone unreservedly."

Whether it didn't occur to him or not is irrelevant at this particular moment. He could've referred to that at a later time, if and when he had a chance to discuss this incident in more depth.

That would have been a terrible defence, because by saying that he'd have been allowing himself to be lumped in with the group I mentioned initially, which is those who are really fucking stupid or actually racist.

Baker came out and defended himself, and rightfully so. That's not allowed though, is it? He's been judged by the baying mob and should just accept it, right?

Later is no good, because by then he's lost his job, he's lost his reputation, and the news has moved on. At a later date no one gives a fuck, they just know he didn't deny it initially.

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3 minutes ago, tiger_rick said:

Write this down because it may be a first, I agree with @David. There isn't anything that makes it better. Even after the explanation, apologies, people explaining the joke and given the fact that he has no history of being a racist (a bellend maybe but not a racist) - there are still people all over who won't accept it was anything but outright racism. Nothing changes that. Except a time machine.

There will always be an implacable element on social media, that's a given - and, as I mentioned in my reply to Ronnie, in many cases understandable given the political climate we're in right now. It can't be taken in isolation.

However, an unreserved apology, no excuses made, would have convinced the most possible people he did it unthinkingly and not out of racism.

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4 minutes ago, Loki said:

I also think the "if you see racism, that makes you racist" is a weak argument.  It's great that so many people didn't see the racial connotation of the post, that shows we've come a long way, but it's well within my lifetime that people used to make "ooh ooh" noises and throw bananas at black football players so let's not pretend this is some historic thing.  Centuries of racism doesn't get overturned in a couple of decades like that, it takes continuing sensitivity and thoughtfulness.

This is partly why I sympathise a bit. Racism isn't solved in this country. It's pretty fucking horrid in a lot of places and seems to have escalated over the past couple of years. And yet is nowhere near as discussed or castigated as what is (in my opinion) a non-racist who made an error of judgement.

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3 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

However, an unreserved apology, no excuses made, would have convinced the most possible people he did it unthinkingly and not out of racism.

It may have convinced more people but not enough to matter. As much as I hate terms like "professionally offended" and such, there is a massive element of people who seem to exist at the moment just to jump on everything.

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2 minutes ago, tiger_rick said:

It may have convinced more people but not enough to matter. As much as I hate terms like "professionally offended" and such, there is a massive element of people who seem to exist at the moment just to jump on everything.

Let's not let the response of idiots on Twitter inform whether it was a stupid thing to say, and whether the apology was appropriate or not.  There will always be white noise from both side of the political spectrum whenever something like this happens, to me it's irrelevant to the argument.

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1 minute ago, Loki said:

Let's not let the response of idiots on Twitter inform whether it was a stupid thing to say, and whether the apology was appropriate or not.  There will always be white noise from both side of the political spectrum whenever something like this happens, to me it's irrelevant to the argument.

It's irrelevent to whether the tweet was inappropriate, which it inarguably was. I don't think it's irrelevent to the response. It's a big part of the reason why he's got the chop for starters. No-one at the BBC is sat wondering whether he's a racist or bothering to ask him. they just cut him loose so they don't have to deal with it.

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9 minutes ago, Loki said:

Well, according to him he would have, as he posted it without realisng its possible race connotations.  You can't eat your cake AND have it.

No, that's not likely to be true. If he'd had in his mind that the newborn was a Black child, then racial connotations of using a chimpanzee would've been flagged in his head just as they would in mine in a situation where I might call a kid a 'cheeky monkey' unless I perceive him to be from a minority background. I don't think twice about using the expression with my niblings, their friends or other kids I meet, and know full well there's no hint of racial connotation when I say it. But as soon as I registered scope for perceived racism, I'd auto-censor, just as I'm sure Baker would've were that the case with him.

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4 minutes ago, Loki said:

Well, according to him he would have, as he posted it without realisng its possible race connotations.  You can't eat your cake AND have it.

Personally, I think he meant that he didn't realise the connotations in this instance. Like me, he probably didn't think about the kids parents and grandparents. If the kid was actually black I doubt he'd have posted that.

I remember reading a while back that Harry was dating someone who was mixed race, but I didn't find it particularly interesting then, and I certainly didn't find it any more interesting afterwards. I see them mugging about on the telly quite a lot, and it never occurs to me. I just think "fuck the establishment and the royal family, down with them all!" for the most part.

6 minutes ago, Loki said:

I also think the "if you see racism, that makes you racist" is a weak argument.  It's great that so many people didn't see the racial connotation of the post, that shows we've come a long way, but it's well within my lifetime that people used to make "ooh ooh" noises and throw bananas at black football players so let's not pretend this is some historic thing.  Centuries of racism doesn't get overturned in a couple of decades like that, it takes continuing sensitivity and thoughtfulness.

The problem is, and I highlighted this earlier, if we see outrage at every single incident that could somehow possibly be construed as racist, it weakens the message and the effect that such outrage has on the wider public.

People become indifferent towards it, and that's not a good thing.

Outrage and news headlines should be met with horror and disdain. When I see a headline accusing someone of being racist, I shouldn't initially think "Yeah, seen that before. I'll check for myself to see what they've been accused of first."

Surely my first reaction should be "fuck me! That's terrible!" at which point I look to see what they've done. I've just reached a point now where there's so much faux outrage that I don't even react how I would have ten years ago.

It's harrowing, it's reached the stage where we see genuine racism and a lot of people don't bat an eyelid when they hear the news, because we're inundated with incidents that we're told are racist so much that it's become somewhat of a regular thing.

 

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17 minutes ago, David said:

I hate to sound harsh, but where does it end?

That's a great question that I ask of all racists.

17 minutes ago, David said:

That would have been a terrible defence, because by saying that he'd have been allowing himself to be lumped in with the group I mentioned initially, which is those who are really fucking stupid or actually racist.

Baker came out and defended himself, and rightfully so. That's not allowed though, is it? He's been judged by the baying mob and should just accept it, right?

Later is no good, because by then he's lost his job, he's lost his reputation, and the news has moved on. At a later date no one gives a fuck, they just know he didn't deny it initially.

He said something racist, and, being a figure in the public eye, this would've been seen by many. Being somebody in a position of privilege, he should've held to his responsibility of not saying racist things. 

He's not a racist, but that doesn't matter to people who've had a lifetime of white people making unthinking racist jokes, slurs, comments, etc. You say something racist, whether you thought about it or not, you're contributing to racist discourse. 

I actually have confidence that he will come back from this, because from what I know of him, he's quite progressive - he'll probably spend a bit of time in the doghouse, like anyone would for a stupid mistake, and then he'll be back.

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